On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:55:55 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Look, you said "hi-tech." Skilled trades are not hi-tech.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?

Sure he's "skilled." He works hard, has outstanding mechanical
aptitude and takes pride in his work. That's it.

All of those jobs are a far cry from assembly line work, and for the
most part they can never be exported, just like construction work.
That does not necessarily mean that their pay will approach the
inflated levels of Detroit auto workers however.

My son's job has to be done locally. The others are open to export.
I worked with many production machinists, tool and diemakers,
industrial electricians, pipefitters, etc.
Their jobs are gone.

With regard to exporting IT jobs to India, I think that we'd both
agree that only relatively large projects make sense. The smaller
work will always stay here close to the business.

No. Specialists can be brought in on H1-B's instead of developing
them here. And small application areas are just as subject to H1-B
invasion and export as large ones. The net effect is transfer of
expertise overseas, and not nurturing local talent.
It's only limited to what the company management wants.
I just found out my right-hand Indian, the sharpest all-around IT guy
I ever knew, went back to India to farm.
The skills he sharpened here should have been directed to Americans,
two if necessary. It's a sad state when Indian farmers are allowed
to outshine American IT talent - mostly because the Americans aren't
nurtured here if Indians - who are nurtured there - can be imported
more cheaply. The Indian IT world is full of skill and leadership.
My shop was I think the biggest IT shop in the midwest.
When I left it was half-full of H1-B Indians and Chinese.
They are smart and out-pacing us in education.
Same with other tech areas like radiology, medicine, etc, etc.
Again, we have different philosophies on this.
I am die-hard American on jobs.
The Indian guys were a pleasure to work with. Polite, hardworking and
smart. Rather have an American I'd have to stand over and argue with.
Just how I am.

--Vic