"hk" wrote in message
. ..
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to
have $50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something
of a stable future.
I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic

BTW, the best jobs in the future for many non-college grads will be in
the skilled building trades, especially plumbing and electrical work.
In those trades, starting pay rates can exceed $75,000 upon satisfactory
completion of a certified apprenticeship program.

What percentage of *certified* electricians make that salary? What area
of the country?


Looking for work?

Nope. My work for pay career has been over for 14 years.

I believe that your salary quote of $75K for plumbers and electricians is
quite a bit over what a *very* high percentage of those folks receive.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?

All of those jobs are a far cry from assembly line work, and for the
most part they can never be exported, just like construction work.
That does not necessarily mean that their pay will approach the
inflated levels of Detroit auto workers however.

With regard to exporting IT jobs to India, I think that we'd both
agree that only relatively large projects make sense. The smaller
work will always stay here close to the business.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and have
no connection to working men or women.

I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and have
no connection to working men or women.

I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.


Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:



We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic

You do realize that you'd be freezing in the dark if it wasn't for Canadian
oil, natural gas , hydro electricity etc etc.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:55:55 -0400, hk wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:


We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to
have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic


Geez, Vic, we and the Canadians are kind of in this mess together, eh?

Sorry, I'm an American-firster. But...besides the fish, the Canucks
can send more Shania Twains and Celine Dions down here.
Hope I'm not repeating myself there.

--Vic

Well I'm a Canadian-firster. What can you send us these days besides
yankee dollahs, violent television and immoral movies?

"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and have
no connection to working men or women.

I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.


Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?

I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:55:55 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.

Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Look, you said "hi-tech." Skilled trades are not hi-tech.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck suspensions?

Sure he's "skilled." He works hard, has outstanding mechanical
aptitude and takes pride in his work. That's it.

All of those jobs are a far cry from assembly line work, and for the
most part they can never be exported, just like construction work.
That does not necessarily mean that their pay will approach the
inflated levels of Detroit auto workers however.

My son's job has to be done locally. The others are open to export.
I worked with many production machinists, tool and diemakers,
industrial electricians, pipefitters, etc.
Their jobs are gone.

With regard to exporting IT jobs to India, I think that we'd both
agree that only relatively large projects make sense. The smaller
work will always stay here close to the business.

No. Specialists can be brought in on H1-B's instead of developing
them here. And small application areas are just as subject to H1-B
invasion and export as large ones. The net effect is transfer of
expertise overseas, and not nurturing local talent.
It's only limited to what the company management wants.
I just found out my right-hand Indian, the sharpest all-around IT guy
I ever knew, went back to India to farm.
The skills he sharpened here should have been directed to Americans,
two if necessary. It's a sad state when Indian farmers are allowed
to outshine American IT talent - mostly because the Americans aren't
nurtured here if Indians - who are nurtured there - can be imported
more cheaply. The Indian IT world is full of skill and leadership.
My shop was I think the biggest IT shop in the midwest.
When I left it was half-full of H1-B Indians and Chinese.
They are smart and out-pacing us in education.
Same with other tech areas like radiology, medicine, etc, etc.
Again, we have different philosophies on this.
I am die-hard American on jobs.
The Indian guys were a pleasure to work with. Polite, hardworking and
smart. Rather have an American I'd have to stand over and argue with.
Just how I am.

--Vic

On Aug 31, 6:19*pm, "Don White" wrote:
"Vic Smith" wrote in message

...





On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:55:55 -0400, hk wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to
have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable
future.

I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. *I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic

Geez, Vic, we and the Canadians are kind of in this mess together, eh?

Sorry, I'm an American-firster. *But...besides the fish, the Canucks
can send more Shania Twains and Celine Dions down here.
Hope I'm not repeating myself there.

--Vic

Well *I'm a Canadian-firster. *What can you send us these days besides
yankee dollahs, violent television and immoral movies?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Don't worry, your progressive government will protect you from the
boogie man...

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and have
no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?

I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.




Reggie is a cowardly pussy. He's taken thousands of cheap shots at
posters here, yet works overtime to try to conceal his actual identity.
You can bet every dollar that in a neighborhood pub, Reggie would be the
little dweeb cowering in the corner, because if he opened his mouth
there as he does here, he'd get the living **** beat out of him on a
daily basis.