Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:16:54 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:25:40 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

We both know that millions of Americans and Canadians would love to have
$50K manufacturing jobs with half decent benefits and something of a
stable
future.
I hear what you're saying, Don, but...I really don't care about the
Canadian economy. I avoid Canadian built GM vehicles.
You guys should stick to providing fish and running lodges up there.

--Vic
You do realize that you'd be freezing in the dark if it wasn't for Canadian
oil, natural gas , hydro electricity etc etc.

Okay. I take it all back.

--Vic

Don is a moron - literally. You already knew that, right?

BAR wrote:
hk wrote:
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 14:50:36 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Tell Gene his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Tell Eisboch his shop guys don't have decent jobs.
Ask them if the gov should do their best to keep those jobs here.
Tell my son the truck suspension guy he doesn't have a decent job.
Go right ahead.
Gene's guys work on aircraft and/or are machinists. Both require
high skill levels.

Eisboch's (former) guys did complex optics and vacuum deposition
work,
more highly skilled jobs.

I assume your son is a skilled mechanic working on truck
suspensions?

Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled
welders, fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly
people, plus a full staff of mechanical, electrical, software
engineers and CAD designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more
about non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really
had a very narrow exposure to the overall American workforce,
despite his claims.

Eisboch
How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37
an hour in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?
How many union guys are making $37 an hour in the envelope?

Construction workers? Lots. Not most, but lots.

My local has a call out for specialty welders for three to four
years of work at rates higher than that, plus the probability of
significant OT. The skills required for those jobs are way over my
pay rate, but...I'm glad to see the rate way up there.

Gosh...I'm amazed you even know what that term in the envelope means.


Believe it or not I was a Teamster at one time. I had to be a
member for my job during college selling/delivering 7-UP.

I still don't think there are as many union electricians and plumbers
making you would like everyone believe. But now you spin it to
*specialty welders*.



Not at all, I just happened to mention an entirely different trade. I
never said the $37 an hour jobs were under contracts negotiated by by
local.

You really need to get a little beyond Reggiethink.

BTW, I was a teamster two college summers. Made about $12.50 an hour
driving a fork lift truck inside a factory in Milford, CT. This was
around 1960-61. Year earlier, I made a bit less loading beer into trucks.

You were over-paid.

It's another lie.

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..


I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?


All Reggie would cough up would be a payphone number on the other side
of his state, or some such diversion. He's got a yellow streak a foot
wide running down his back.

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..


I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?

EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number

hk wrote:


All Reggie would cough up would be a payphone number on the other side
of his state, or some such diversion. He's got a yellow streak a foot
wide running down his back.

I made the offer, it looks like you are the one with the yellow streak.

Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. wrote:
JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir
Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. "
wrote in message . ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir
Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. "
wrote in message ...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk
wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys,
and have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he
has NO idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any
different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to
build your fortune..

I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon
as you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.
I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?

EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number


Isn't it Dennis Compton?

"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more
about non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a
very narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his
claims.

Eisboch

How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an
hour in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?

It has been several years since I had an idea of payscales, etc. All I
can say is that the company paid competitive salaries/hourly rates, had
a 401 type pension plan to which the company made a varying
contribution, depending on how well we were doing, had an excellent Blue
Cross health plan for which the company paid 75% of the premiums and a
dental plan with the same company contribution. We also picked up the
tab for continued technical education, if it was pertinent to the
employee's responsibilities at the company.

It must have been ok because our turnover rate was virtually zero. We
did lose one welder to the "Big Dig" because they were offering
pay/overtime packages at the time that were way out of whack with
industry. The welder came back though, after a year of busting his ass,
working night shifts plus overtime. It wasn't worth it to him.

We also had a close knit, teamwork culture. Quite often during the
summer, on nice weekends, we would simply shut the place down at
noontime on Fridays and let everyone enjoy a longer than normal weekend
at home. They were fully paid for the day of course.

And, when the company was sold the first time, every employee shared in
the financial rewards, based on a formula I came up with. Basically,
each employee got a thousand bucks for every month or part of a month he
or she had worked for the company.
Several people received enough to pay off house mortgages, or move up to
larger homes, as they had over 11 years at the company.

My son and I bought the company back several years later when the buyers
determined the business was not in line with future plans. (They were,
themselves the subject of an acquisition).

My son ran the company for the past 5 years. Lightning struck twice and
again, it became a desirable acquisition by a globally based, high tech
organization.

The financial rewards of the recent sale were also shared proportionally
with all employees, most of whom had also received a share of the first
sale. None of the employees who received either or both benefits were
shareholders.

I am very, very proud of the company I had, the work ethic of the
employees and their loyalty, sense of teamwork and quality of the
systems we produced. Our customers shared that viewpoint.

So, being union at whatever per hour isn't the answer to everything.


Eisboch


If every workplace was as fair as yours...unions would be out of
business.
I worked for a 'Crown Corporation' and in a big somewhat impersonal
national workplace always complaining about insufficient funds from the
gov't, a union to protect employees was and still is necessary.
I can guarantee you that by American standards, we weren't overpaid. One
bad period we went almost four years without a cost of living increase,
and when we did get increases it was always a struggle to stay even with
inflation.

It really sounded like a terrible place to work. Why in the world would
an intelligent individual with marketable skills work in a substandard
workplace.

I understand you know next to nothing about working conditions outside your
little redneck heaven, but the Corp I worked for was considered one of the
better workplaces in this area when I joined up in the early 70s.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:31:29 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

JimH wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:00:17 -0400, "Earl of Warwich, Duke of
Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P. Smithers III Esq. LLC,
STP. " wrote:

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
. ..
Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:26:11 -0400, hk wrote:

You have to realize that W'hine and Reggie aren't regular guys, and
have no connection to working men or women.
I can't speak for Reggie but in my case you have *no* idea what you
are talking about.

Harry has a long history of making 1000's of posts on subjects he has NO
idea what he is talking about. Why should this be any different?
I think he's pegged you pretty good over the years.
Come on out from hidding and we'll judge for ourselves.
Don, what do you want to know?

Your real name would be a good start and the line of work you did to build
your fortune..


I never said I had a fortune, and I will share my real name as soon as
you and Harry provide me with your phone numbers and address.

I will be happy to share my information with you provided you do not
make it public over the internet.

I would love to share a person to person conversation with you.

You, in turn, will have to do the same.

This will all be share via email through a 3rd party, such as Gene or
Tom.

Game on?

EVERYONE in there already knows your name, address and phone number

And?

So why not let us know your name, address and phone number?

BTW: Will you give me a call tomorrow morning?

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more
about non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a
very narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his
claims.

Eisboch
How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an
hour in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?
It has been several years since I had an idea of payscales, etc. All I
can say is that the company paid competitive salaries/hourly rates, had
a 401 type pension plan to which the company made a varying
contribution, depending on how well we were doing, had an excellent Blue
Cross health plan for which the company paid 75% of the premiums and a
dental plan with the same company contribution. We also picked up the
tab for continued technical education, if it was pertinent to the
employee's responsibilities at the company.

It must have been ok because our turnover rate was virtually zero. We
did lose one welder to the "Big Dig" because they were offering
pay/overtime packages at the time that were way out of whack with
industry. The welder came back though, after a year of busting his ass,
working night shifts plus overtime. It wasn't worth it to him.

We also had a close knit, teamwork culture. Quite often during the
summer, on nice weekends, we would simply shut the place down at
noontime on Fridays and let everyone enjoy a longer than normal weekend
at home. They were fully paid for the day of course.

And, when the company was sold the first time, every employee shared in
the financial rewards, based on a formula I came up with. Basically,
each employee got a thousand bucks for every month or part of a month he
or she had worked for the company.
Several people received enough to pay off house mortgages, or move up to
larger homes, as they had over 11 years at the company.

My son and I bought the company back several years later when the buyers
determined the business was not in line with future plans. (They were,
themselves the subject of an acquisition).

My son ran the company for the past 5 years. Lightning struck twice and
again, it became a desirable acquisition by a globally based, high tech
organization.

The financial rewards of the recent sale were also shared proportionally
with all employees, most of whom had also received a share of the first
sale. None of the employees who received either or both benefits were
shareholders.

I am very, very proud of the company I had, the work ethic of the
employees and their loyalty, sense of teamwork and quality of the
systems we produced. Our customers shared that viewpoint.

So, being union at whatever per hour isn't the answer to everything.


Eisboch

If every workplace was as fair as yours...unions would be out of
business.
I worked for a 'Crown Corporation' and in a big somewhat impersonal
national workplace always complaining about insufficient funds from the
gov't, a union to protect employees was and still is necessary.
I can guarantee you that by American standards, we weren't overpaid. One
bad period we went almost four years without a cost of living increase,
and when we did get increases it was always a struggle to stay even with
inflation.
It really sounded like a terrible place to work. Why in the world would
an intelligent individual with marketable skills work in a substandard
workplace.

I understand you know next to nothing about working conditions outside your
little redneck heaven, but the Corp I worked for was considered one of the
better workplaces in this area when I joined up in the early 70s.




Keep in mind that Reggie the Coward is only here to provoke.
The only suitable response for Reggie:

**** You.

Don White wrote:
"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Just to clarify, in addition to optical thin film engineers and
technicians, the company also had (still has) many skilled welders,
fabricators, machinists, electricians, general assembly people, plus a
full staff of mechanical, electrical, software engineers and CAD
designers.

This is why Harry's assumption that nobody can possibly know more
about non union workplaces than him is so empty. He has really had a
very narrow exposure to the overall American workforce, despite his
claims.

Eisboch
How many of the non-degreed fellows at that plant are making $37 an
hour in the envelope, plus pension and health benefits?
It has been several years since I had an idea of payscales, etc. All I
can say is that the company paid competitive salaries/hourly rates, had
a 401 type pension plan to which the company made a varying
contribution, depending on how well we were doing, had an excellent Blue
Cross health plan for which the company paid 75% of the premiums and a
dental plan with the same company contribution. We also picked up the
tab for continued technical education, if it was pertinent to the
employee's responsibilities at the company.

It must have been ok because our turnover rate was virtually zero. We
did lose one welder to the "Big Dig" because they were offering
pay/overtime packages at the time that were way out of whack with
industry. The welder came back though, after a year of busting his ass,
working night shifts plus overtime. It wasn't worth it to him.

We also had a close knit, teamwork culture. Quite often during the
summer, on nice weekends, we would simply shut the place down at
noontime on Fridays and let everyone enjoy a longer than normal weekend
at home. They were fully paid for the day of course.

And, when the company was sold the first time, every employee shared in
the financial rewards, based on a formula I came up with. Basically,
each employee got a thousand bucks for every month or part of a month he
or she had worked for the company.
Several people received enough to pay off house mortgages, or move up to
larger homes, as they had over 11 years at the company.

My son and I bought the company back several years later when the buyers
determined the business was not in line with future plans. (They were,
themselves the subject of an acquisition).

My son ran the company for the past 5 years. Lightning struck twice and
again, it became a desirable acquisition by a globally based, high tech
organization.

The financial rewards of the recent sale were also shared proportionally
with all employees, most of whom had also received a share of the first
sale. None of the employees who received either or both benefits were
shareholders.

I am very, very proud of the company I had, the work ethic of the
employees and their loyalty, sense of teamwork and quality of the
systems we produced. Our customers shared that viewpoint.

So, being union at whatever per hour isn't the answer to everything.


Eisboch

If every workplace was as fair as yours...unions would be out of
business.
I worked for a 'Crown Corporation' and in a big somewhat impersonal
national workplace always complaining about insufficient funds from the
gov't, a union to protect employees was and still is necessary.
I can guarantee you that by American standards, we weren't overpaid. One
bad period we went almost four years without a cost of living increase,
and when we did get increases it was always a struggle to stay even with
inflation.
It really sounded like a terrible place to work. Why in the world would
an intelligent individual with marketable skills work in a substandard
workplace.

I understand you know next to nothing about working conditions outside your
little redneck heaven, but the Corp I worked for was considered one of the
better workplaces in this area when I joined up in the early 70s.



Actually, I have lived on 3 continents, went to college in NYC, and
worked in 7 cities in the US before moving to Atlanta. I have changed
employers and moved 3 times for better employment opportunities. You on
the other hand, take a job that you feel was a terrible place to work,
just so you can stay in your little tiny town. The best piece of ****
is still nothing more than a piece of ****.

Tell me again who knows next to nothing about working conditions
outside their little redneck heaven?