On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:59:03 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote:

JohnH,
No, Chuck is always impartial and unbiased in all of his comments. He would
never coyly place blame for everything wrong with the world on
conservatives.


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On 14 Dec 2005 17:20:30 -0800, wrote:


Bert Robbins wrote:

Chuck never scolds the left his remarks are written such that he
describes
what the right is doing and then says "Can't we all just get along?"

If you think you recognize "the right" so clearly when I remark on
negative behavior without assigning names or blame, what does that tell
you?

Is this not assigning blame?

"...Aren't at least a few of the folks in the current pig
piles on Harry and Basskisser..."
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!


Thank you. 'Coyly' is a great word, the one for which I've been mentally searching for months, just
for Chuck. You would think that a mental search shouldn't take me long, 'cause there's not a lot of
places for me to look!

This time, he wasn't up to his usual cute coyness.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

JohnH,
The mind is the 2nd thing to go.


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:59:03 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The
WordSmith wrote:

JohnH,
No, Chuck is always impartial and unbiased in all of his comments. He
would
never coyly place blame for everything wrong with the world on
conservatives.


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On 14 Dec 2005 17:20:30 -0800, wrote:


Bert Robbins wrote:

Chuck never scolds the left his remarks are written such that he
describes
what the right is doing and then says "Can't we all just get along?"

If you think you recognize "the right" so clearly when I remark on
negative behavior without assigning names or blame, what does that tell
you?

Is this not assigning blame?

"...Aren't at least a few of the folks in the current pig
piles on Harry and Basskisser..."
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!


Thank you. 'Coyly' is a great word, the one for which I've been mentally
searching for months, just
for Chuck. You would think that a mental search shouldn't take me long,
'cause there's not a lot of
places for me to look!

This time, he wasn't up to his usual cute coyness.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:09:44 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote:

Harry,

Wither you are Christian or not, the concept of Jesus absolving one of sins
is an excellent concept. It allows the person to acknowledge their faults
and sins, make amends if necessary, and free the burden of these "sins" or
faults from their soul, conscience or "back".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession

It is used by therapist and 12 step groups as part of the healing process.

It is one of the reasons why I am amazed at the knowledge and understanding
of humanity shown by Jesus and/or his disciples when forming the early
church and writing the Gospels.

It really doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not, the Bible is an
excellent roadmap to live by.


I understand the Christian concept of absolution, but I've not been able
to figure out how Christians absolve themselves for sins against their
fellow man.

--
China: See Wal-Mart.


Are there 12-step groups for disorders *other* than addictions?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Bert Robbins wrote:

Chuck never scolds the left his remarks are written such that he
describes
what the right is doing and then says "Can't we all just get along?"
If you think you recognize "the right" so clearly when I remark on
negative behavior without assigning names or blame, what does that tell
you?

It tells me you are a partisan hack and hypocrite. Aren't you going on a
rec.boats sabatical sometime soon?


--
Named al Qaeda Recruiter of the Year: George W. Bush

Wow! I am amazed! You change the subject line.

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:52:50 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Harry,

Wither you are Christian or not, the concept of Jesus absolving one of sins
is an excellent concept. It allows the person to acknowledge their faults
and sins, make amends if necessary, and free the burden of these "sins" or
faults from their soul, conscience or "back".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession

It is used by therapist and 12 step groups as part of the healing process.

It is one of the reasons why I am amazed at the knowledge and understanding
of humanity shown by Jesus and/or his disciples when forming the early
church and writing the Gospels.

It really doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not, the Bible is an
excellent roadmap to live by.




I understand the Christian concept of absolution, but I've not been able
to figure out how Christians absolve themselves for sins against their
fellow man.

I don't think you got the gist of my query.

Let's be a bit more specific.

Let's say that Bert Robbins doesn't like his neighbor (a safe bet), and
hears of a home burglary down the street. The police come around and
knock on everyone's door (not likely) while investigating. Bert says,
"You know, I have a feeling my neighbor Paul Fritz might be the burglar.
You said a set of custom golf clubs were stolen, and Paul once told me
he really coveted the set the fellow down the street owned."

The cops get a warrant, search Fritz's house, find no golf clubs, but do
find an ounce of marijuana. Paul is arrested on drug charges, tried,
convicted and sent to the slam for six months.

Robbins, in a moment of humanity. feels a bit of guilt. So he heads over
to the Holy House of St. Forgiveness, confesses to his priest or pastor,
says a penance, and receives absolution. Robbins is straight with god.

But he's not straight with his neighbor Paul Fritz, who is in the slam.

Is Robbins required to do anything to absolve himself of the sin he
committed against his neighbor, or is he off the hook morally?

What does Robbins believe?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:57:24 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:09:44 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote:

Harry,

Wither you are Christian or not, the concept of Jesus absolving one of sins
is an excellent concept. It allows the person to acknowledge their faults
and sins, make amends if necessary, and free the burden of these "sins" or
faults from their soul, conscience or "back".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession

It is used by therapist and 12 step groups as part of the healing process.

It is one of the reasons why I am amazed at the knowledge and understanding
of humanity shown by Jesus and/or his disciples when forming the early
church and writing the Gospels.

It really doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not, the Bible is an
excellent roadmap to live by.
I understand the Christian concept of absolution, but I've not been able
to figure out how Christians absolve themselves for sins against their
fellow man.

--
China: See Wal-Mart.

Are there 12-step groups for disorders *other* than addictions?
--
John Herring

I doubt you need 12-steps worth of instructions to increase your
repertoire of disorders.

Harry, may I ask why you are so uncivil this morning?

What do you think of Wayne B's proposal that we all adopt a New Year's resolution to knock off the
bad behavior?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:05:13 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:52:50 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Harry,

Wither you are Christian or not, the concept of Jesus absolving one of sins
is an excellent concept. It allows the person to acknowledge their faults
and sins, make amends if necessary, and free the burden of these "sins" or
faults from their soul, conscience or "back".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession

It is used by therapist and 12 step groups as part of the healing process.

It is one of the reasons why I am amazed at the knowledge and understanding
of humanity shown by Jesus and/or his disciples when forming the early
church and writing the Gospels.

It really doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not, the Bible is an
excellent roadmap to live by.



I understand the Christian concept of absolution, but I've not been able
to figure out how Christians absolve themselves for sins against their
fellow man.
I don't think you got the gist of my query.

Let's be a bit more specific.

Let's say that Bert Robbins doesn't like his neighbor (a safe bet), and
hears of a home burglary down the street. The police come around and
knock on everyone's door (not likely) while investigating. Bert says,
"You know, I have a feeling my neighbor Paul Fritz might be the burglar.
You said a set of custom golf clubs were stolen, and Paul once told me
he really coveted the set the fellow down the street owned."

The cops get a warrant, search Fritz's house, find no golf clubs, but do
find an ounce of marijuana. Paul is arrested on drug charges, tried,
convicted and sent to the slam for six months.

Robbins, in a moment of humanity. feels a bit of guilt. So he heads over
to the Holy House of St. Forgiveness, confesses to his priest or pastor,
says a penance, and receives absolution. Robbins is straight with god.

But he's not straight with his neighbor Paul Fritz, who is in the slam.

Is Robbins required to do anything to absolve himself of the sin he
committed against his neighbor, or is he off the hook morally?

What does Robbins believe?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!


In this example, in the abstract, I cannot tell.

Mu guess is that according the the precepts of his church, he has
confessed his sin (false witness, I suppose) to his priest-pastor,
mumbled a few words he was told to mumble, and us "off the hook"
theologically.

Which is one of the problems I have with Christianity.

In my mind, he's still on the hook with his neighbor, and he should have
first worked at making things right with the neighbor before he sought
absolution in his church. It doesn't seem "reasonable" for the creator
to accept a sinner who has done damage to another soul and has done
nothing about it, in terms of that other soul.

In any religion, beliefs are paramount. If you can't tell what *he* believes, then you can't guess
as to whether or not he is 'off the hook' so to speak.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

JohnH,

There are 12 step groups for just about everything. I looked in Google for
a 12 step group for NPD and found there are support groups for the victims
of NPD, but those with the illness rarely seek help. One of the problems
mentioned is those with NPD would always try to take advantage the other
members of the group.

I did find many links that warned people to be concerned if someone with NPD
makes a threat. It appears that NPD can be very dangerous if they feel
threatened.

When I first started using the Internet, my ISP warned about Security and
Privacy issues. I started using an anonymous ID for Internet Security and
financial info security, not personal security, after reading about NPD I
am glad I have always followed the advice of the experts. Hell would freeze
over before I would give any personal info to someone with NPD.




"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:09:44 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The
WordSmith wrote:

Harry,

Wither you are Christian or not, the concept of Jesus absolving one of
sins
is an excellent concept. It allows the person to acknowledge their faults
and sins, make amends if necessary, and free the burden of these "sins" or
faults from their soul, conscience or "back".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession

It is used by therapist and 12 step groups as part of the healing process.

It is one of the reasons why I am amazed at the knowledge and
understanding
of humanity shown by Jesus and/or his disciples when forming the early
church and writing the Gospels.

It really doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not, the Bible is an
excellent roadmap to live by.


I understand the Christian concept of absolution, but I've not been able
to figure out how Christians absolve themselves for sins against their
fellow man.

--
China: See Wal-Mart.


Are there 12-step groups for disorders *other* than addictions?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:55:43 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote:

JohnH,

There are 12 step groups for just about everything. I looked in Google for
a 12 step group for NPD and found there are support groups for the victims
of NPD, but those with the illness rarely seek help. One of the problems
mentioned is those with NPD would always try to take advantage the other
members of the group.

I did find many links that warned people to be concerned if someone with NPD
makes a threat. It appears that NPD can be very dangerous if they feel
threatened.

When I first started using the Internet, my ISP warned about Security and
Privacy issues. I started using an anonymous ID for Internet Security and
financial info security, not personal security, after reading about NPD I
am glad I have always followed the advice of the experts. Hell would freeze
over before I would give any personal info to someone with NPD.



Other than the occasional 'Kevin' post, I don't think I've ever seen such a hissy-fit thrown in a
news group. What is even more surprising is the lack of support Harry received from his followers.
Apparently his followers saw through your ploy about the same time Harry took the bait.

I expect he'll be 'cowed-down' for a while.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

Most 12 step groups require some kind of reasonable amends, and it might be
just apologizing or it might be more detailed. I am not sure what a priest
would do, but again, my guess is if the person could make some kind of
amends, he would probably be asked to do that as part of his "penance".

I am just guessing, maybe some of our Catholic friends who sin can provide
us with more info.

Do you agree that it is amazing how practical the Bible can be? I am not
suggesting their are not conflicts and hypocrisy within Christianity and
churches (what group or organization does not suffer from these problems),
but that the bible does provide an excellent roadmap to live by.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Harry,

Wither you are Christian or not, the concept of Jesus absolving one of
sins is an excellent concept. It allows the person to acknowledge their
faults and sins, make amends if necessary, and free the burden of these
"sins" or faults from their soul, conscience or "back".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confession

It is used by therapist and 12 step groups as part of the healing
process.

It is one of the reasons why I am amazed at the knowledge and
understanding of humanity shown by Jesus and/or his disciples when
forming the early church and writing the Gospels.

It really doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not, the Bible is an
excellent roadmap to live by.



I understand the Christian concept of absolution, but I've not been able
to figure out how Christians absolve themselves for sins against their
fellow man.

I don't think you got the gist of my query.

Let's be a bit more specific.

Let's say that Bert Robbins doesn't like his neighbor (a safe bet), and
hears of a home burglary down the street. The police come around and knock
on everyone's door (not likely) while investigating. Bert says, "You know,
I have a feeling my neighbor Paul Fritz might be the burglar.
You said a set of custom golf clubs were stolen, and Paul once told me he
really coveted the set the fellow down the street owned."

The cops get a warrant, search Fritz's house, find no golf clubs, but do
find an ounce of marijuana. Paul is arrested on drug charges, tried,
convicted and sent to the slam for six months.

Robbins, in a moment of humanity. feels a bit of guilt. So he heads over
to the Holy House of St. Forgiveness, confesses to his priest or pastor,
says a penance, and receives absolution. Robbins is straight with god.

But he's not straight with his neighbor Paul Fritz, who is in the slam.

Is Robbins required to do anything to absolve himself of the sin he
committed against his neighbor, or is he off the hook morally?




--
Named al Qaeda Recruiter of the Year: George W. Bush