On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:40:38 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Bert Robbins wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
I thought AA has been effective helping alcoholics, and that goes back to
before there were "rehab clinics".

What part of "support group" do you not understand?
AA is a support group. That is all it is.

And its effectiveness is the best.


Effectiveness as what? A support group? Maybe.




I believe he meant effective in keeping the addict 'clean'.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:44:29 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

P Fritz wrote:
"narcissists can't see

Idiot boy Fritz refilled his tank


Harry, have you ever thoughtfully read the NPD symptoms Fritz posts?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

Harry,

I have no idea if JohnH had an alcohol problem or not, but anyone who is
successful in kicking a habit is much stronger than the average person. A
normal person would congratulate someone who was in "recovery", you seem to
think it a hot button you can push when it is appropriate.

I know when I was younger, I and many people I knew, drank more than we
should. It was very common for meetings to include an overstocked
"hospitality suite". I never considered myself an addict, but I know I
feel better since I stopped drinking. Today when I am setting up a
"hospitality suite" it includes finger food ( veggie tray, sushi, wings,etc.
soft drinks, beer and wine. If someone asks for a brand of type of
liquor, I will have it sent up, but that is the exception, it seems everyone
has cut way back on their liquor consumption.

If you wife read how you belittle those you think are in "recovery" she
would be ashamed.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:36:32 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:59:17 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:03:34 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
JohnH,

There are 12 step groups for just about everything. I looked in
Google for a 12 step group for NPD and found there are support
groups for the victims of NPD, but those with the illness rarely
seek help. One of the problems mentioned is those with NPD would
always try to take advantage the other members of the group.
More amateur hour? If you fell seriously ill with multiple symptoms
and had no idea what was causing them, would you seek professional
help or would you start playing guessing games with the data on
internet sites?

Sometimes a 12-step program will provide the support an addict
needs, but that addict also will need therapy and other assistance.
12-stepping is no substitute for therapy.
You've much to learn 12-step programs.

The question was whether or not a 12-step program helped disorders
*other* than addictions. Although
not specifically addressed, the question of NPD was answered by
Reggie. Do you have other
information?
--
John Herring
I would agree that 12-step programs help *some* sufferers of various
addictions with support. The "addiction" 12-step programs are support
groups.
That's better.
--

Better? It's no different than my original position. All the 12-step
programs offer is support. It takes a lot more than "support" for most
addicts to kick their habits.

Are you a graduate of a 12-step support group?

You earlier stated an addict 'will need therapy and other assistance' in
addition to a 12-step
program. That was not a true statement.

Are you seeking more personal information for your data base?
--
John Herring


D'oh. Most addicts need more than 12-step support groups to kick their
habits.

What database is that, John? I think I posted here a couple of years ago
that you reminded me of an alcoholic "in recovery." That's not in any
database. I just remember posting it.




--
Named al Qaeda Recruiter of the Year: George W. Bush

"narcissists can't see that they have a problem; it's always somebody else
who
has the problem and needs to change"

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:44:29 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

P Fritz wrote:
"narcissists can't see

Idiot boy Fritz refilled his tank


Harry, have you ever thoughtfully read the NPD symptoms Fritz posts?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!

Harry,
Have you read any of the books concerning NPD?


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:44:29 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

P Fritz wrote:
"narcissists can't see
Idiot boy Fritz refilled his tank

Harry, have you ever thoughtfully read the NPD symptoms Fritz posts?
--

John, we have a home library here with at least 1000 professional books on
all sorts of emotional and mental problems. Why would I bother to
"thoughtfully" read *anything* Fritz posts?


--
Named al Qaeda Recruiter of the Year: George W. Bush

Harry,
When I saw John's picture from his cruise vacation, he looked very healthy.
I would assume he eat correctly and gets regular exercise. You may want to
ask him about his diet and exercise program.


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Harry,

I have no idea if JohnH had an alcohol problem or not, but anyone who is
successful in kicking a habit is much stronger than the average person.

I'm not going down this road with you. If John is indeed "in recovery,"
then that speaks well of his ability to get ahold of and control something
that would have destroyed him. As I said, I was only guessing he was in
recovery.

--
Named al Qaeda Recruiter of the Year: George W. Bush

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Harry,
Have you read any of the books concerning NPD?


If your behavior bothers you and you feel the need for help, I suggest you
find a professional provider in your home town, and not take seriously any
perseverations emanating from Fritz, Herring, or Hertv.




Your list changes hourly Harry. I have been off it all day. In fact just
hours ago you were praising me.

Mood swings? NPD?

"no matter how gently you suggest that they might do better to change
their ways or get some help, they will react in one of two equally horrible
ways: they will attack or they will withdraw."

"They can't see that they have a problem; it's always somebody else who
has the problem and needs to change"

"narcissists will say ANYTHING, they will trash anyone in their own
self-justification, and then they will expect the immediate restoration of
the status quo. They will attack you (sometimes physically) and spew a load
of bile, insult, abuse, contempt, threats, etc."

" JimH" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Harry,
Have you read any of the books concerning NPD?


If your behavior bothers you and you feel the need for help, I suggest
you
find a professional provider in your home town, and not take seriously
any
perseverations emanating from Fritz, Herring, or Hertv.




Your list changes hourly Harry. I have been off it all day. In fact just
hours ago you were praising me.

Mood swings? NPD?

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Harry,
Have you read any of the books concerning NPD?

If your behavior bothers you and you feel the need for help, I suggest
you find a professional provider in your home town, and not take
seriously any perseverations emanating from Fritz, Herring, or Hertv.




Your list changes hourly Harry. I have been off it all day. In fact
just hours ago you were praising me.

Mood swings? NPD?

I don't think you are the "worst" of the righties here. I never have.

I noticed you were engaged in the same old crap with one of your
adversaries here.


Same crap?

I assume you are talking about Kevin. He is not my adversary Harry. At
times he can post some useful information. But he mainly appears to be an
angry young man who comes here to dump on others. My hope is that he will
quit posting the profanities and constant insults and become a constructive
member of this NG. (Note below that he did so on 12-13).

Here is an example of selections from Kevins posts from the last few days:
----------------------------------------------
12-15-05

you are such a low life piece of scum.



you idiot.



you are such a nasty little ****



By the way, are ALL of your kids prostituting? Are you still pimping?



Asshole



you ****ing low life piece of ****.



you little low life pussy.



I'd LOVE to spit right in your **** stained face



What a nasty little pussy you are.



What a piece of **** you are!







12-14-05

Just to show what an ignorant twit you are..



....you lying piece of ****.



So, how'd your wife get so greedy that she made you sell your boat, asshole?



But, seeing how you are just dumb, and can't comprehend, let's recap.



You nasty little cocksucker.



YOU have proven yourself to be the lowest piece of **** here



You are such a low life ****ing loser



you low life scum.



you worthless little twit.



you asshole.



you low life *******



**** you.



dip****.



You are just scum. Just a nasty little gnat like piece of ****.







12-13-05

(Kevin behaved himself today)





12-12-05

Grow up, you ****ing baby.



.... idiot.



Too poor of a ****bag to live up to your word?



... dip****.



idiot.





12-9-05

Idiot.



You must be dumber than a post.



None of your ****ing business, how's that?



You idiot,



Uh, perhaps because *I* didn't make the statement, dumb ass.



If you are dumb enough to ask a question like that, an answer would
escape your grasp.



you dip****!!!!



You actually have the audacity to criticize others here, when you in fact,
are the
lowest piece of **** here.



I've known some nasty little assholes in my day, but you take the cake.



Okay, you notice I specifically asked Bill, but alas, everyone here
knows about your inability to comprehend anything.





12-8-05

Are you SO ****ing dumb that you can't figure out one simple, little
thing?



I'm not Kevin, you low life liar.



I'm not Kevin, you dolt.



Crap, I knew you wouldn't be bright enough to figure it out!



Unless, of course you are just posting in ignorance, as usual.



You aren't very bright are you?



What an ignorant low life piece fo crap you are. You've been proven as
such right here in this thread.



I'm not Kevin, but you are dumb as a post:



Grow up, you brainless little **** stain.



BUT, you are so stupid, you don't understand that by REPLYING TO ME, you
are, indeed, doing those things TO ME.


-----------------------------------------------

Do you condone this type of behavior here Harry?

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Harry,
Have you read any of the books concerning NPD?
If your behavior bothers you and you feel the need for help, I suggest
you find a professional provider in your home town, and not take
seriously any perseverations emanating from Fritz, Herring, or Hertv.



Your list changes hourly Harry. I have been off it all day. In fact
just hours ago you were praising me.

Mood swings? NPD?
I don't think you are the "worst" of the righties here. I never have.

I noticed you were engaged in the same old crap with one of your
adversaries here.


Same crap?

I assume you are talking about Kevin. He is not my adversary Harry. At
times he can post some useful information. But he mainly appears to be
an angry young man who comes here to dump on others. My hope is that
he will quit posting the profanities and constant insults and become a
constructive member of this NG. (Note below that he did so on 12-13).

Here is an example of selections from Kevins posts from the last few
days:
----------------------------------------------


These selections may interest you, but they don't interest me.

You snipped them so I assume they offend you as they do me and, I would
guess, most every member here.

Here they are again Harry. Do you condone this sort of language and
behavior here?

12-15-05

you are such a low life piece of scum.



you idiot.



you are such a nasty little ****



By the way, are ALL of your kids prostituting? Are you still pimping?



Asshole



you ****ing low life piece of ****.



you little low life pussy.



I'd LOVE to spit right in your **** stained face



What a nasty little pussy you are.



What a piece of **** you are!







12-14-05

Just to show what an ignorant twit you are..



....you lying piece of ****.



So, how'd your wife get so greedy that she made you sell your boat, asshole?



But, seeing how you are just dumb, and can't comprehend, let's recap.



You nasty little cocksucker.



YOU have proven yourself to be the lowest piece of **** here



You are such a low life ****ing loser



you low life scum.



you worthless little twit.



you asshole.



you low life *******



**** you.



dip****.



You are just scum. Just a nasty little gnat like piece of ****.







12-13-05

(Kevin behaved himself today)





12-12-05

Grow up, you ****ing baby.



.... idiot.



Too poor of a ****bag to live up to your word?



... dip****.



idiot.







12-9-05

Idiot.



You must be dumber than a post.



None of your ****ing business, how's that?



You idiot,



Uh, perhaps because *I* didn't make the statement, dumb ass.



If you are dumb enough to ask a question like that, an answer would
escape your grasp.



you dip****!!!!



You actually have the audacity to criticize others here, when you in fact,
are the
lowest piece of **** here.



I've known some nasty little assholes in my day, but you take the cake.



Okay, you notice I specifically asked Bill, but alas, everyone here
knows about your inability to comprehend anything.





12-8-05

Are you SO ****ing dumb that you can't figure out one simple, little
thing?



I'm not Kevin, you low life liar.



I'm not Kevin, you dolt.



Crap, I knew you wouldn't be bright enough to figure it out!



Unless, of course you are just posting in ignorance, as usual.



You aren't very bright are you?



What an ignorant low life piece fo crap you are. You've been proven as
such right here in this thread.



I'm not Kevin, but you are dumb as a post:



Grow up, you brainless little **** stain.



BUT, you are so stupid, you don't understand that by REPLYING TO ME, you
are, indeed, doing those things TO ME.