"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
I thought AA has been effective helping alcoholics, and that goes back to
before there were "rehab clinics".


What part of "support group" do you not understand?
AA is a support group. That is all it is.

And its effectiveness is the best.

"Rehab" clinics do more than provide support, but they also provide
support, sometimes in conjunction with AA, sometimes not.

AA alone has been proven to be more effective than any other method for
getting and keeping alcoholics sober. The sad thing is that it only works
23% of the time, if that much.

There also are other ways of treating addition.

Addiction is the hardest thing to treat without the addicted person wanting
to be treated.

There's more than one cover for the pot.

JohnH,
You and I are trying our best, but some people just don't seem to be
interested in making rec.boats a kinder, gentler newsgroup.

Maybe Wayne should talk to Harry and see if Harry might tone it down a tad.


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:38:41 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:07:28 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The
WordSmith wrote:



I believe Harry has a data base going in which he stores every bit of
personal information he can
glean from his readings on the group.
--

You might want to consider joining a 12-step program for psychotics.
You're out of touch with reality.

Was that supposed to be a denial?

What do you think of Wayne's idea? Pretty good, huh? We could all try to
keep the name-calling,
snarkiness, etc. out of the group.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:17:31 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:54:53 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Ok. Is that you story and you are sticking to it?


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
JohnH,

I was curious about Harry's real life persona. I have an image in my
head and I was wondering if it was accurate, but it still is not a big
deal.

My guess is Harry wanted to know my name, and once he had that info he
would not have meet for lunch. In the past, he has always found an
excuse not to meet up with someone.

Oh, I would have been there, but there is no chance you would have.
I have no interest in the details of your sorry life beyond your name.
Everything else I care to know about you I already know, from your
behavior here.

The lunch would have given me the opportunity to see if you are as big a
horse's ass in person as you are in this newsgroup, that's all.

But you didn't even have the balls to meet for lunch.



--
Named al Qaeda Recruiter of the Year: George W. Bush


What, that you didn't have the balls to show up for lunch?

You're the one who backed out when I insisted on knowing the
first and last name of the person who wanted to meet me.

Meeting someone "by appointment" whose name I don't know is NOT
some

thing I would do under any circumstances. I wasn't into computer
dating when it was "the" thing to do, and I'm not into it now.

Frankly, your reluctance makes me wonder whether you are a peculiar sort
of sexual predator who has the hots for older, balding men.

More likely, though, it is just another manifestation of your cowardice.

And we already know you are a coward.

Harry, does someone have to be especially courageous to meet you for lunch? Do you bring all your
guns?

Do you ever have lunch with females, or must all your lunch dates have 'the balls to show up'?
--
John Herring

All the people I meet for lunch have first and last names known to me.
Sometimes my lunch date will bring a new person along. If that happens,
proper introductions are made. We won't wear Army plastic name plates.

Do you check ID's?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

JohnH,
I still can't figure out why Harry thinks it takes guts to meet him for
lunch. That one just went right over my head. I don't pretend to be a
"horse" or a tough guy, but I can't think of many times I ever felt I was in
danger of being physically hurt, and I don't carry or own a gun. I think
it is both your mental outlook and your physical strength that determine if
someone is going to harass you. I don't believe Harry would threaten me
physically.


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:54:53 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
Ok. Is that you story and you are sticking to it?


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
JohnH,

I was curious about Harry's real life persona. I have an image in my
head and I was wondering if it was accurate, but it still is not a big
deal.

My guess is Harry wanted to know my name, and once he had that info he
would not have meet for lunch. In the past, he has always found an
excuse not to meet up with someone.

Oh, I would have been there, but there is no chance you would have.
I have no interest in the details of your sorry life beyond your name.
Everything else I care to know about you I already know, from your
behavior here.

The lunch would have given me the opportunity to see if you are as big
a
horse's ass in person as you are in this newsgroup, that's all.

But you didn't even have the balls to meet for lunch.



--
Named al Qaeda Recruiter of the Year: George W. Bush




What, that you didn't have the balls to show up for lunch?

You're the one who backed out when I insisted on knowing the
first and last name of the person who wanted to meet me.

Meeting someone "by appointment" whose name I don't know is NOT
some

thing I would do under any circumstances. I wasn't into computer
dating when it was "the" thing to do, and I'm not into it now.

Frankly, your reluctance makes me wonder whether you are a peculiar sort
of sexual predator who has the hots for older, balding men.

More likely, though, it is just another manifestation of your cowardice.

And we already know you are a coward.

Harry, does someone have to be especially courageous to meet you for
lunch? Do you bring all your
guns?

Do you ever have lunch with females, or must all your lunch dates have
'the balls to show up'?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!

"narcissists can't see that they have a problem; it's always somebody else
who
has the problem and needs to change"

"narcissists hate their real selves, they don't want to change -- they
want the world to change. And they criticize, gripe, and complain about
almost everything and almost everyone almost all the time. There are usually
a favored few whom narcissists regard as absolutely above reproach, even for
egregious misconduct or actual crime, and about whom they won't brook the
slightest criticism. These are people the narcissists are terrified of,
though they'll tell you that what they feel is love and respect; apparently
they don't know the difference between fear and love. Narcissists just get
worse and worse as they grow older; their parents and other authority
figures that they've feared die off, and there's less and less outside
influence to keep them in check"

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:38:41 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:07:28 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The
WordSmith wrote:



I believe Harry has a data base going in which he stores every bit of
personal information he can
glean from his readings on the group.
--

You might want to consider joining a 12-step program for psychotics.
You're out of touch with reality.

Was that supposed to be a denial?

What do you think of Wayne's idea? Pretty good, huh? We could all try to
keep the name-calling,
snarkiness, etc. out of the group.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:15:58 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:34:06 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:00:33 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:14:08 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:55:43 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote:

JohnH,

There are 12 step groups for just about everything. I looked in Google for
a 12 step group for NPD and found there are support groups for the victims
of NPD, but those with the illness rarely seek help. One of the problems
mentioned is those with NPD would always try to take advantage the other
members of the group.

I did find many links that warned people to be concerned if someone with NPD
makes a threat. It appears that NPD can be very dangerous if they feel
threatened.

When I first started using the Internet, my ISP warned about Security and
Privacy issues. I started using an anonymous ID for Internet Security and
financial info security, not personal security, after reading about NPD I
am glad I have always followed the advice of the experts. Hell would freeze
over before I would give any personal info to someone with NPD.


Other than the occasional 'Kevin' post, I don't think I've ever seen such a hissy-fit thrown in a
news group. What is even more surprising is the lack of support Harry received from his followers.
Apparently his followers saw through your ploy about the same time Harry took the bait.

I expect he'll be 'cowed-down' for a while.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!
Header changed to reflect a bit of right-wing pig piling.

Oh, I don't need nor do I look for "support" in newsgroups, as you
fellows seem to. I did get a couple of emails that giggled along with me.

I did notice that once I insisted on knowing Smithers' real name before
I met him for lunch, he quieted right down. The only conclusion can be
that he really is a coward, or he has something to hide.
Harry, you know my name, or at least most of it, and *I* wouldn't meet you for lunch. I'm neither a
coward nor one with something to hide from you.
That's because you are an ill-mannered horse's ass. Not my problem.
...as opposed to a well-mannered horse's ass?

Didn't we add name-calling to the 'bad behavior' list?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!

Your tone constitutes another form of name-calling. As you as you act
like a horse's ass here, you'll be one.

Now you're complaining about my singing?

Not sure how to translate the second sentence.

What do you think of Wayne's idea to have a New Year's resolution to behave better?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!

I'm always in favor of good manners and fewer snarky, smarmy, unctuous
posters here.

OK. We've got snarkiness, smarminess, unctuousness, piling-on, name-calling, and what else?

Should we add lying? You had a couple others, but I lost the message. Could you refresh my memory?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

JohnH,
I thought that is what Harry said, but I was too lazy to go back and read
the original post. Sometimes the thread becomes too boring to bother, but
you are absolutely correct, many people are able to treat their addictions
without therapy and other assistance. Some of these people use a 12 Step
Program, some don't.

Many people find Christianity as a source of strength to help them over
their addictions. I am sure that offended some of the Non Christians in the
group.




"John H." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:36:32 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:59:17 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:03:34 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
JohnH,

There are 12 step groups for just about everything. I looked in
Google for
a 12 step group for NPD and found there are support groups for the
victims
of NPD, but those with the illness rarely seek help. One of the
problems
mentioned is those with NPD would always try to take advantage the
other
members of the group.
More amateur hour? If you fell seriously ill with multiple symptoms
and
had no idea what was causing them, would you seek professional help
or
would you start playing guessing games with the data on internet
sites?

Sometimes a 12-step program will provide the support an addict needs,
but that addict also will need therapy and other assistance.
12-stepping
is no substitute for therapy.
You've much to learn 12-step programs.

The question was whether or not a 12-step program helped disorders
*other* than addictions. Although
not specifically addressed, the question of NPD was answered by
Reggie. Do you have other
information?
--
John Herring
I would agree that 12-step programs help *some* sufferers of various
addictions with support. The "addiction" 12-step programs are support
groups.

That's better.
--


Better? It's no different than my original position. All the 12-step
programs offer is support. It takes a lot more than "support" for most
addicts to kick their habits.

Are you a graduate of a 12-step support group?

You earlier stated an addict 'will need therapy and other assistance' in
addition to a 12-step
program. That was not a true statement.

Are you seeking more personal information for your data base?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
...and your New Year even Better!

When Harry said "There's more than one cover for the pot", I couldn't figure
out what in the world he was saying. I couldn't imagine anyone taking my
comment to mean that I felt their was only "cover for the pot". I was
disagreeing with the comment that " It takes a lot more than "support" for
most addicts to kick their habits." I had always heard that AA has the
best track record for alcoholics and their track records goes way back.

I actually felt like I was debating with Kevin.


"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
I thought AA has been effective helping alcoholics, and that goes back
to before there were "rehab clinics".


What part of "support group" do you not understand?
AA is a support group. That is all it is.

And its effectiveness is the best.

"Rehab" clinics do more than provide support, but they also provide
support, sometimes in conjunction with AA, sometimes not.

AA alone has been proven to be more effective than any other method for
getting and keeping alcoholics sober. The sad thing is that it only works
23% of the time, if that much.

There also are other ways of treating addition.

Addiction is the hardest thing to treat without the addicted person
wanting to be treated.

There's more than one cover for the pot.

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:27:36 -0500, "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" The WordSmith wrote:

JohnH,
I still can't figure out why Harry thinks it takes guts to meet him for
lunch. That one just went right over my head. I don't pretend to be a
"horse" or a tough guy, but I can't think of many times I ever felt I was in
danger of being physically hurt, and I don't carry or own a gun. I think
it is both your mental outlook and your physical strength that determine if
someone is going to harass you. I don't believe Harry would threaten me
physically.

Maybe he thought you'd be 'mentally' threatened. But the past twenty-four hours has definitely laid
that idea to rest. I have no idea either. From my personal observation, there is nothing about Harry
that one would find 'physically' threatening, unless he was carrying all his guns.

I also can't understand why he won't engage me in a discussion of bad behavior. I think Wayne's New
Year's resolution idea was a pretty good one.

Maybe Chuck will join in a push for good behavior.
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:39:27 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:36:32 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:59:17 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:03:34 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Wm Shakespeare Smithers wrote:
JohnH,

There are 12 step groups for just about everything. I looked in Google for
a 12 step group for NPD and found there are support groups for the victims
of NPD, but those with the illness rarely seek help. One of the problems
mentioned is those with NPD would always try to take advantage the other
members of the group.
More amateur hour? If you fell seriously ill with multiple symptoms and
had no idea what was causing them, would you seek professional help or
would you start playing guessing games with the data on internet sites?

Sometimes a 12-step program will provide the support an addict needs,
but that addict also will need therapy and other assistance. 12-stepping
is no substitute for therapy.
You've much to learn 12-step programs.

The question was whether or not a 12-step program helped disorders *other* than addictions. Although
not specifically addressed, the question of NPD was answered by Reggie. Do you have other
information?
--
John Herring
I would agree that 12-step programs help *some* sufferers of various
addictions with support. The "addiction" 12-step programs are support
groups.
That's better.
--

Better? It's no different than my original position. All the 12-step
programs offer is support. It takes a lot more than "support" for most
addicts to kick their habits.

Are you a graduate of a 12-step support group?

You earlier stated an addict 'will need therapy and other assistance' in addition to a 12-step
program. That was not a true statement.

Are you seeking more personal information for your data base?
--
John Herring


D'oh. Most addicts need more than 12-step support groups to kick their
habits.

That's better.

What database is that, John? I think I posted here a couple of years ago
that you reminded me of an alcoholic "in recovery." That's not in any
database. I just remember posting it.

When you made that claim, did I call you a lot of foul names, threaten to wring your scrawny neck,
and ask you for proof of your wild allegations?
--
John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular!
....and your New Year even Better!