On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:08:23 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

As for the radio, my theory is that someone oblivious enough miss
seeing a 32 foot sailboat directly ahead isn't going to be on the ball
enough that I want to waste time talking to them.

I think that's the wrong way to look at the situation. An oncoming
sailboat can be a confusing situation and it is better to state your
intentions sooner rather than later. What if the oncoming boat had
been a freighter instead of a mega yacht, how would you view the
situation in that case? Neither will turn or stop on a dime. If you
want to receive courtesy from a power boat you must be prepared to
give it also.

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:15:40 -0400, DSK wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
Roger, with all due respect, a large wake should be regarded as just
another wave in a seaworthy and decent sized boat such as yours.

With all due respect, it is well to keep in mind that the
operator of a vessel making a wake is 100% responsible for
the damage done by his wake. It is exactly the same as a
person with a gun being held responsible for where his
bullets end up.

No boat of Roger's size should be at risk of damage from a wake in
open water.


.... It
is unreasonable to expect people to slow down except in a confined
area where you could lose control.


It is unreasonable to expect to endanger... or even present
a major & potentially expensive inconvenience... to other
people and have them shrug it off.

Danger is in the eye of the beholder. Since I wasn't there, it's
difficult to assess the situation impartially. I can say that in two
years of trawlering our GB49 up and down the east coast that I have
seen some incredibly bad behavior from a few sailboats who think that
they still have the right of way when motoring with the mainsail up,
or the right to suddenly tack in front with less than two boat lengths
separation, and various other similar examples.


Almost all boats of that size are piloted by professionals and will
respond positively to requests presented in a professional manner.


That's been my experience as well, but the exceptions are
always noteworthy.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Wayne.B wrote in
:

Roger, with all due respect,

Sarcasm On:

Yeah, Roger, it was all your fault for being out there in a boat that
wasn't custom built, a hundred feet long and couldn't take an 8' wake
without having to maneuver around. How dare you?!....

Sarcasm Off:

I was swamped up to the bimini on my 16' Sea Rayder jetboat while idling
along near the Battery Wall in downtown Charleston by an asshole driving
a diving boat full of teenagers, racing back to his dock. I hauled the
flooded jetboat around and took chase as the drains and bilge pump worked
on the weight problem. Asshole decides he's gonna outrun a 175hp jetboat
with his diesel diveboat....NOT. I followed him right into his slip and
got his numbers/number of passengers (18) and noted his slip. After a
heated discussion based on his ancestral lineage, he told me I shouldn't
be out on Charleston Harbor in a 16' jetboat, anyways. It was, as my
sarcasm above, all my fault.

I called CG on the way to his slip on my VHF and asked them to meet us,
but they wouldn't respond. They don't do anything if they don't
PERSONALLY witness the event, I was told. It's like if the cops wouldn't
come to your house just because you saw someone lurking about in your
back yard. I later filed a report, duly noting he had 18 passengers on
board for hire.

They got him, not on my event, but because he had a sixpack license......

Every time I see that boat or his dive shop driving by it angers me he's
just gone on as if nothing mattered. I guess it doesn't, until someone
dies.

You never have a Stinger or depth charge when you need one.....

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:52:24 -0400, Larry wrote:

Sarcasm On:

Yeah, Roger, it was all your fault for being out there in a boat that
wasn't custom built, a hundred feet long and couldn't take an 8' wake
without having to maneuver around. How dare you?!....

There is a *big* difference between a 32 ft cruising sailboat and a 16
ft jetboat. You were endangered, Roger was inconvenienced.

I'm always amazed at the number of cruising sailboats that feel
entitled to perpetual flat water as some sort of birth right.

In article ,
says...
"Wayne.B" wrote
SNIP
As for the radio, my theory is that someone oblivious enough miss
seeing a 32 foot sailboat directly ahead isn't going to be on the ball
enough that I want to waste time talking to them. It was another of
those days when I was using both hands for the boat. I doubt he could
have understood the handheld out in the wind even if he hadn't been
out on the bridge wing sucking a cig.


Yes, but the Coast Guard recording of your call on channel 16
might be a fine companion to your pictures in a report. ;-)


Mark Borgerson

What about the people on it? Suppose someone was injured. That could easily
happen as a result of wake or evasive maneuvers to avoid a collision.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:15:40 -0400, DSK wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
Roger, with all due respect, a large wake should be regarded as just
another wave in a seaworthy and decent sized boat such as yours.

With all due respect, it is well to keep in mind that the
operator of a vessel making a wake is 100% responsible for
the damage done by his wake. It is exactly the same as a
person with a gun being held responsible for where his
bullets end up.

No boat of Roger's size should be at risk of damage from a wake in
open water.


.... It
is unreasonable to expect people to slow down except in a confined
area where you could lose control.


It is unreasonable to expect to endanger... or even present
a major & potentially expensive inconvenience... to other
people and have them shrug it off.

Danger is in the eye of the beholder. Since I wasn't there, it's
difficult to assess the situation impartially. I can say that in two
years of trawlering our GB49 up and down the east coast that I have
seen some incredibly bad behavior from a few sailboats who think that
they still have the right of way when motoring with the mainsail up,
or the right to suddenly tack in front with less than two boat lengths
separation, and various other similar examples.


Almost all boats of that size are piloted by professionals and will
respond positively to requests presented in a professional manner.


That's been my experience as well, but the exceptions are
always noteworthy.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I have limited salt water experience, only a couple of bareboat
charters in the Gulf of Mexico... But I have a lifetime of sweet water
sailing on the Great Lakes... One thing I learned early on is that
ships/freighters don't change course, even in a thousand feet of water
and no land visible in any direction... There is no one looking out
the window, and no one will answer the radio - and if in some miracle
they did they don't speak any english anyway...

So, as a sail boat skipper I learned to automatically change course as
soon as I see it is going to be close...... I don't get all bent up
over regulations, or that as a sailing vessel I have the right of way,
or that the hired Captain is an arrogant ass... Opposing a large ship
is like a motorcycle challenging a semi at 70 MPH on a narrow road...
You may be dead right on your cycle, but you will still be dead...
Roger, take a deep breath and forget about it...

cheers ... denny

Wayne.B wrote:
I'm always amazed at the number of cruising sailboats that feel
entitled to perpetual flat water as some sort of birth right.


Well, look at it this way...

If your wake causes any damage or injury, you are responsible.

If your wake causes hazard or great inconvenience, that
makes you an inconsiderate asshole.

Maybe I should give your next door neighbor's kid an
electric guitar and a 1,000 watt amplifier to drive home
this point.

Ownership of a boat (or a guitar)(or a gun) does not convey
the unlimited right to use it however you want.

I'm always amazed at the number of power boaters who feel
that their wake should make other people happy.

DSK

"Gary" wrote

It's funny how these things always seem to happen to you. What was
it last time, a small ferry?

Gary

Twice in 36 years doesn't add up to "always" in my book and, while I
may be the only one reporting in this particular venue, I'm sure I'm
not the only one this happens to.

Twice in a summer may be a interesting statistical cluster. What I
think I'm really seeing here is a change in culture and expectations
of professionals on the water made more obvious by my having been a
pleasure boating Rip Van Winkle for 15 years. Far fewer people have a
clue about the right of way rules than they used to and I'm sure this
effects the thinking of commercial operators. Effectively, there are
no right of way rules for pleasure boats now or between pleasure boats
and commercial craft. Perhaps it's reasonable for the commercial
boats to just go in straight lines and keep the right of way rules
between them and their peers whose behavior can be predicted.

The responses about large vessels are off the mark. Both of these
were boats that could, and would, have diverted around a floating log
without a second thought to avoid possible damage to their props.
They held their courses either because of inattention or because they
assumed I would adopt the role of the burdened vessel in violation of
my duty to maintain a straight and predictable course. Neither
reflects well on them.

I would happily put the plots of my courses down an any USCG inquiry
table. I maintained a straight and consistent course as the stand on
vessel. When it became clear that the burdened vessel was not going
to respond appropriately, I diverted or slowed in time to avoid danger
of collision as well as danger that they would divert in the same
direction.

Regarding the radio, it is only a means of communication. The
handling of your vessel can be an excellent and even more convenient
method of indicating your intent. If you intend to depart your stand
on course, make a big and obvious change, show the other vessel the
whole side of your boat for a few moments and then come back to the
course that will clear. If they are watching, they'll get the
message. If they aren't watching, they probably aren't going to make
any sudden course changes before taking a look around.

--

Roger Long

"Denny" wrote

Roger, take a deep breath and forget about it...

Don't read too much into this. These were hardly big deals or
emergencies but they do raise some interesting discussion points about
the current state of the system we all rely on to help us avoid
hitting each other.

I used to sail Solings around Boston Harbor on Sunday afternoons with
spinnakers set so I'm comfortable keeping complex traffic situations
sorted out and handling a sailboat. Both of these close encounters
however, were situations where an inexperienced person, already
dealing with challenging conditions, could have gotten into trouble.
The skippers of these two boats had no way of knowing I wasn't one of
those.

What I hear from my numerous contacts on the "other side", as one
primarily involved with commercial vessels, is irritation that so many
sailboats assume that the always have the right of way, even over
large vessels constrained in channels and, as someone else responded,
when their engines are on. Many also think the sails give them the
right to tack whenever they want.

What we may be seeing here is the commercial vessels (and private
yacht captains with the conceit that they are such) pushing back by
trying to promote the expectation that they will NEVER deviate or
change speed for smaller craft. If this is the case, it's only a
matter of time before there is a tragedy.

--

Roger Long