"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:07:14 -0400, "Scotty"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in
I can tell you from experience that evading oncoming
sailboats is
problematic.

yeah, it's a real bitch to turn that steering wheel.

Your sarcasm runneth over.

Try it sometime from the other helm and report back. Most large
powerboats are run by autopilot in open water, and course corrections
are usually done in one or two degree increments, not dodging all over
the ocean for a sailboat that may or may not decide to tack in front
of you, or may or may not be lifted by the latest puff of wind. On my
boat, which is substantial but no where near mega yacht size, I will
typically close to within 100 or 200 yards before I even begin to
commit to one side or another. If the other boat makes an unexpected
course change inside of 100 yards they can create a very dangerous
situation. I can crash stop in about 50 yards (3 boat lengths) but it
is very tough on the engines and transmissions.


Can we all just agree that EVERY skipper has the duty and obligation to
avoid collisions with other vessels, and to make our intentions known to
other boats on the water? Generally speaking, however, powerboats (or
sailboats under power, being the same thing) are much more maneuverable,
and/or free to take any heading they like, than sailboats. When
singlehanding my ketch, I also use autopilot quite a bit -- nevertheless,
that doesn't relieve me of the obligation to avoid collisions.

Karin Conover-Lewis
Rawson 30 ketch "Escapade"
Marinette WI

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 02:05:54 GMT, dog wrote:

On 2006-07-25 21:52:24 -0400, Larry said:

You never have a Stinger or depth charge when you need one.....

Really need to learn more about weaponry and ordnance... neither is
really appropriate for ship-to-ship combat. A torpedo or a deck gun is
far more appropriate.

Stingers are Anti-aircraft missles. Depth charges do little damage to
boats...and are use for anti-submarine work.

Don't be too sure...

http://www.west.net/~lpm/hobie/archi...i2/humor.shtml



__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at world wide wiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

"Wayne.B" further enforced
the typical powerboater mentality with this gem......

yeah, it's a real bitch to turn that steering wheel.

Your sarcasm runneth over.

You got it though, eh?


Try it sometime from the other helm and report back.


I have. Never had a real problem turning a wheel. Are you
that limp wristed?

Most large
powerboats are run by autopilot in open water, and course
corrections
are usually done in one or two degree increments,


Oh, okay, I should have written, 'yeah it's a real bitch to
push that button on the autopilot.'



. On my
boat, which is substantial


what size, in feet, is ''substantial''?



typically close to within 100 or 200 yards before I even
begin to
commit to one side or another. If the other boat makes an
unexpected
course change inside of 100 yards they can create a very
dangerous
situation. I can crash stop in about 50 yards (3 boat
lengths) but it
is very tough on the engines and transmissions.


Hoo Boy,,, thanks for reaffirming my opinion of most ( not
all ) powerboaters.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_

KLC Lewis wrote:
Can we all just agree that EVERY skipper has the duty and obligation to
avoid collisions with other vessels, and to make our intentions known to
other boats on the water?

Now there is a good idea... oddly enough it is mentioned in
ColRegs, too. Make helm corrections early, make them
obvious, so the other vessel doesn't ahve to guess your
intentions.

... Generally speaking, however, powerboats (or
sailboats under power, being the same thing) are much more maneuverable

Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are
a lot more maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have
something to do with it, I'm guessing!

and/or free to take any heading they like, than sailboats. When
singlehanding my ketch, I also use autopilot quite a bit -- nevertheless,
that doesn't relieve me of the obligation to avoid collisions.


Uh-oh, now you're expecting common sense?!?

We've had people walk out on their foredeck and angrily yell
at us to keep out of their way because they were on
autopilot. Haven't had that happen when we were anchored,
but that'll probably occur any day now.

I recently had a shrimp trawler yell at me to get out of his
way. He was trawling, I was anchored. Oh well.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
KLC Lewis wrote:

Can we all just agree that EVERY skipper has the duty and obligation
to avoid collisions with other vessels, and to make our intentions
known to other boats on the water?


Now there is a good idea... oddly enough it is mentioned in ColRegs,
too. Make helm corrections early, make them obvious, so the other vessel
doesn't ahve to guess your intentions.

... Generally speaking, however, powerboats (or sailboats under power,
being the same thing) are much more maneuverable


Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot more
maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do with it,
I'm guessing!
If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way
most of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.

and/or free to take any heading they like, than sailboats. When
singlehanding my ketch, I also use autopilot quite a bit --
nevertheless, that doesn't relieve me of the obligation to avoid
collisions.


Uh-oh, now you're expecting common sense?!?

We've had people walk out on their foredeck and angrily yell at us to
keep out of their way because they were on autopilot. Haven't had that
happen when we were anchored, but that'll probably occur any day now.

I recently had a shrimp trawler yell at me to get out of his way. He was
trawling, I was anchored. Oh well.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot more
maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do with it,
I'm guessing!

Gary wrote:
If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way
most of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.


No, but they still have the hull & foil characteristics of
sailboats, which give them sharper... and more consistent...
turning radius.

There is no doubt that sailboats are maneuverable in terms
of their handling in confined space.

However, their relative speed and (when under sail) their
limits on their operational freedom of heading is what makes
them "considered" to be less maneuverable in the ColRegs.

I don't know where some people who own sailboats get the
idea they have the "right-of-way" even when motoring. It's
just plain stupid.

DSK

"Gary" wrote in message
news:kucyg.245719$iF6.215069@pd7tw2no...
DSK wrote:
KLC Lewis wrote:

Can we all just agree that EVERY skipper has the duty and obligation to
avoid collisions with other vessels, and to make our intentions known to
other boats on the water?


Now there is a good idea... oddly enough it is mentioned in ColRegs, too.
Make helm corrections early, make them obvious, so the other vessel
doesn't ahve to guess your intentions.

... Generally speaking, however, powerboats (or sailboats under power,
being the same thing) are much more maneuverable


Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot more
maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do with it,
I'm guessing!
If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way most
of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.

and/or free to take any heading they like, than sailboats. When
singlehanding my ketch, I also use autopilot quite a bit --
nevertheless, that doesn't relieve me of the obligation to avoid
collisions.


Uh-oh, now you're expecting common sense?!?

We've had people walk out on their foredeck and angrily yell at us to
keep out of their way because they were on autopilot. Haven't had that
happen when we were anchored, but that'll probably occur any day now.

I recently had a shrimp trawler yell at me to get out of his way. He was
trawling, I was anchored. Oh well.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Gary, the least maneuverable tend to have higher status.. that's why there
is restricted-by-maneuverability rule for example. Perhaps you need to
rethink this.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

DSK wrote:
Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot
more maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do
with it, I'm guessing!


Gary wrote:

If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way
most of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.


No, but they still have the hull & foil characteristics of sailboats,
which give them sharper... and more consistent... turning radius.

There is no doubt that sailboats are maneuverable in terms of their
handling in confined space.

However, their relative speed and (when under sail) their limits on
their operational freedom of heading is what makes them "considered" to
be less maneuverable in the ColRegs.

I don't know where some people who own sailboats get the idea they have
the "right-of-way" even when motoring. It's just plain stupid.

DSK

I don't think that the R of R were created thinking of hull and foil
characteristics. I think it has more to do with the slow speed and
limited freedom of movement of large sailing craft as compared to
similar sized power driven vessels. A large square rigger who has to
fall off the wind to give way to a freighter may take a day to get back
to where he was. A freighter could recover in minutes. It also takes
and entire crew to alter a large sailing vessel and one guy to alter a
power driven vessel. The rules were originally written with shipping in
mind, not small handy vessels.

My opinion.....

One issue I have with sailboats is two meeting after dark. How can the
racing rules or the R of R be applied after dark when you can't see what
tack the other boat is on?

In a recent race I was in, the sailors left their masthead lights on
(anchor lights) so they could see the wind indicators at the mast head.
For all the world they looked like power driven vessels from a
distance. Do you think they knew that?

Gary

Capt. JG wrote:
"Gary" wrote in message
news:kucyg.245719$iF6.215069@pd7tw2no...

DSK wrote:

KLC Lewis wrote:


Can we all just agree that EVERY skipper has the duty and obligation to
avoid collisions with other vessels, and to make our intentions known to
other boats on the water?


Now there is a good idea... oddly enough it is mentioned in ColRegs, too.
Make helm corrections early, make them obvious, so the other vessel
doesn't ahve to guess your intentions.


... Generally speaking, however, powerboats (or sailboats under power,
being the same thing) are much more maneuverable


Actually I think sailboats... especially under power... are a lot more
maneuverable. The larger rudders & keels have something to do with it,
I'm guessing!

If sailboats were more maneouverable they would get the right of way most
of the time. Under power they are not sailboats.

and/or free to take any heading they like, than sailboats. When
singlehanding my ketch, I also use autopilot quite a bit --
nevertheless, that doesn't relieve me of the obligation to avoid
collisions.


Uh-oh, now you're expecting common sense?!?

We've had people walk out on their foredeck and angrily yell at us to
keep out of their way because they were on autopilot. Haven't had that
happen when we were anchored, but that'll probably occur any day now.

I recently had a shrimp trawler yell at me to get out of his way. He was
trawling, I was anchored. Oh well.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Gary, the least maneuverable tend to have higher status.. that's why there
is restricted-by-maneuverability rule for example. Perhaps you need to
rethink this.

You must read what I meant not what I said. If sailboats were more
maneouverable they wouldn't have the right of way most of the time.

Sorry.

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:08:50 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Come on. The radio has it's place and some meeting situations demand
it for sorting out but this was a crystal clear situation in wide open
water. If the radio was used between small vessels and larger ones in
every situation this simple, nobody would be able to get a word in
edgewise.

If a vessel clearly is either not keeping a watch or blatantly
violating the right of way rules, why waste time on the radio?


Total self serving BS.

That would make for an interesting defence in court.