It amazing all right .... when the force of the breaking wave across an
open transom throws you into the wheel.... and when you recover the
wave who doesnt want to be in the cockpit in the first place attempts
to rip your pants off and knock you off your feet as is 'empties'.
Nah ..... give me a place to hide.
An open transom is like standing naked on a sheet of plywood. If You
want a sailboard, buy a sailboard.
;-)


In article , DSK
wrote:

rhys wrote:
I gather Colvin hates the idea of getting pooped in a Jacuzzi-sized
cockpit. Well, who can blame him?


Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Fitted cushion salesmen, for starters.

Or anyone who grasps the concept of sufficient reserve bouyancy coupled
with an open transom.

It's just amazing, if water gets in it runs right back out again quick
as a wink. And it's handy a lot of other ways, too.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

rhys wrote:
I gather Colvin hates the idea of getting pooped in a Jacuzzi-sized
cockpit. Well, who can blame him?


Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Fitted cushion salesmen, for starters.

Or anyone who grasps the concept of sufficient reserve bouyancy coupled
with an open transom.

It's just amazing, if water gets in it runs right back out again quick
as a wink. And it's handy a lot of other ways, too.

Yep, it gets rid of that easy to get at, easy to repair, nasty old ugly
rudder hangn from the transom. Also does a swell job of reducing
living space in a given length. As for seaworthiness... the more
poops the better. Well, I suppose happy hour on the steps of a
swim cum fishing cum barbecue platform in mid ocean makes it
all worth it. Time to change the hood ornament.

JAXAshby wrote:

no, moose stored, being afraid of a taking a T-37 out to sea in 3 foot seas
is
emotionally abhorant (look the word up).

Disgusting, loathsome, repellent, and despicable is the way
you see people who don't measure up to your standards?

no, moose stored, it is not a question of my standards, but rather a question
of yo-yo's (like you, it becomes more and more apparent) who put themselves in
stew ped lee dangerous situations utterly lacking in native capabilities and
skills to handle the situation, and THEN insisting it is someone else's moral
and legal responsibility to save their sorry ass.

Don't fret... I promise not to look to you for help.

JAXAshby wrote:

well, for one, you think fitted cockpit cushions make a boat more seaworthy.

Huh?



hey, moose brain (what a weird addy you have. yuk!)

Hmm... I, have a weird attitude?

yes, moose brain, you do.

How so?

JAXAshby wrote:

geesh, dood, back to study with you. lunch isn't for another 45 minutes.

Can you say dementia?



"fitted cockpit cushions"
are considered any part of the required equipment on an ocean voyaging
boat
to
make it more seaworthy.

Since when?

since 10,000 B.C.

How so?








--

The last stage of
utopian sentimentalism
is homicidal mania.

Rich Hampel wrote:
It amazing all right .... when the force of the breaking wave across an
open transom throws you into the wheel.... and when you recover the
wave who doesnt want to be in the cockpit in the first place attempts
to rip your pants off and knock you off your feet as is 'empties'.

???

I guess the part about "reserve bouyancy" didn't really mean anything?


Nah ..... give me a place to hide.

If conditions are that bad, then one would most prudently be either
reaching off under very small sail or else lying to a sea anchor.

If you have irrational prejudices against modern boats, then surely you
can come up with some better rationalization?

A heavy displacement boat and/or double ender would be even worse off in
the same scenario, getting hit by breaking crests much harder as it
responds less to the waves.

An open transom is like standing naked on a sheet of plywood.

Oh yeah, that's *exactly* what it's like! Funny, in all the years of
sailing open transom boats, I never thought of that!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

No, sorry, Skip...I saw your message yesterday but was consumed with
work and retrieving engine spares from my boat...I have finally
enlisted some help on that front as I don't seem to have the time to
finish the rebuild personally...paint the block, swap out gears,
etc...

E-mail me offlist please at mdacey AT darkstar dot ca , and I will
learn of this "Shiloh" (isn't that a Civil War battlefield?)

R.

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:45:12 -0400, "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach @
adelphia . net (usual alterations for spam avoidance) wrote:

OT, my apologies: Rhys, did you get my info about Shiloh?

L8R

Skip

Roy Jose Lorr wrote:
Yep, it gets rid of that easy to get at, easy to repair, nasty old ugly
rudder hangn from the transom.

There's no reason why a transom hung rudder couldn't be hung from an
open transom. Lots of racing boats have that exact arrangement... oh
wait, is that a dirty word?


... Also does a swell job of reducing
living space in a given length.

??? Increasing reserve bouyancy aft increases interior space aft.

It's not those old fashioned counter sterns or double enders that have
whole staterooms tucked under the cockpit & quarters in 35 footers.

... As for seaworthiness... the more
poops the better. Well, I suppose happy hour on the steps of a
swim cum fishing cum barbecue platform in mid ocean makes it
all worth it. Time to change the hood ornament.

Hood ornaments are dangerous... they block the drivers vision and they
gouge chunks out of unlucky pedestrians... not sure how that affects
behavior in following seas though.

DSK

In article , DSK
wrote:

Rich Hampel wrote:
It amazing all right .... when the force of the breaking wave across an
open transom throws you into the wheel.... and when you recover the
wave who doesnt want to be in the cockpit in the first place attempts
to rip your pants off and knock you off your feet as is 'empties'.

???

I guess the part about "reserve bouyancy" didn't really mean anything?
Oh really? I guess you missed the part that equates to too much
bouyancy in the stern causes the stem to dive/plunge when a large wave
comes astern.


Nah ..... give me a place to hide.

If conditions are that bad, then one would most prudently be either
reaching off under very small sail or else lying to a sea anchor.
Yup, open sterns equate to optimally light weight (low scantling
numbers) boats that coudnt stand the pounding.


If you have irrational prejudices against modern boats, then surely you
can come up with some better rationalization?
Not at all, I own both traditional, modern and crazy.

A heavy displacement boat and/or double ender would be even worse off in
the same scenario, getting hit by breaking crests much harder as it
responds less to the waves.
Not so, most double enders (Perry, Creighlock, Harris, etc. designs)
have quite a bit of 'bustle' to the stern. In those designs one
considers that the 'protuberance' of the tumblehome canoe stern is just
a cosmetic/styling addition .... when you imaginarily cut the styling
off, you have essentially the same hull form bouyancy-wise. Go look at
the line drawings of them sometime - the 'pinch' is an addition well
aft of where the reserve is located. I guess by the same reasoning a
boat with an extended retractable bowsprit would be deemed to have less
reserve in the bow section. ;-)

An open transom is like standing naked on a sheet of plywood.

Oh yeah, that's *exactly* what it's like! Funny, in all the years of
sailing open transom boats, I never thought of that!
Honestly, when was the last time you were in the OCEAN for more than an
easy coastal passage with an open stern.... didnt happen. Open sterns
are nice for protected bays and lakes..... nope not on the ocean (balls
to the wall racing excluded).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I guess the part about "reserve bouyancy" didn't really mean anything?

Rich Hampel wrote:
Oh really? I guess you missed the part that equates to too much
bouyancy in the stern causes the stem to dive/plunge when a large wave
comes astern.

Not necessarily.

If you want to have a serious discussion, let's. But your earlier post
seemed mocking.


If conditions are that bad, then one would most prudently be either
reaching off under very small sail or else lying to a sea anchor.

Yup, open sterns equate to optimally light weight (low scantling
numbers) boats that coudnt stand the pounding.

Depends on the builder and the intent of the design, doesn't it?
Certainly there is nothing inherent about an open transom that requires
flimsy construction.

There are plenty of instances of modern designs sticking out weather
that hammered more traditional boats, including (sadly) breaking up.



A heavy displacement boat and/or double ender would be even worse off in
the same scenario, getting hit by breaking crests much harder as it
responds less to the waves.

Not so, most double enders (Perry, Creighlock, Harris, etc. designs)
have quite a bit of 'bustle' to the stern. In those designs one
considers that the 'protuberance' of the tumblehome canoe stern is just
a cosmetic/styling addition .... when you imaginarily cut the styling
off, you have essentially the same hull form bouyancy-wise.

The original Colin Archer redningskoite designs were dependent on
reserve bouyancy forward and aft... an aside, they were also built as
lightly as possible given the technology of the times...

A bustle or canoe stern isn't going to have the same reserve bouyancy as
a heavily flared stern section.

... Go look at
the line drawings of them sometime

I have, thanks.

... - the 'pinch' is an addition well
aft of where the reserve is located.

It's all about enclosed volume. If the shape reduces volume, then it
reduces bouyancy.

OTOH it's also possible to have the volume in the wrong place, such as
those beautiful old fashioned counter sterns that are utter beasts at sea.



... I guess by the same reasoning a
boat with an extended retractable bowsprit would be deemed to have less
reserve in the bow section. ;-)

Yep, I'd think so... judging by the amount of water that comes in some
of them...



Oh yeah, that's *exactly* what it's like! Funny, in all the years of
sailing open transom boats, I never thought of that!

Honestly, when was the last time you were in the OCEAN for more than an
easy coastal passage with an open stern.... didnt happen. Open sterns
are nice for protected bays and lakes..... nope not on the ocean (balls
to the wall racing excluded).

Funny, all those racing boats have to be delivered to the starts and
from the finishes. Usually they have a tight schedule and are often out
in weather that's at least a little uncomfortable. If they were that
bad, then we'd be hearing news about them sinking and loss of life etc
etc. But not a whisper... is it a cover-up?

Some people's "easy coastal passage" is another person's nightmare. It's
all relative. If you want to believe that open transoms are death traps
(and I've had several "old salt" types tell me exactly that) then be my
guest. But there isn't really much fact to support that position.

DSK