On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:14:47 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

Jessica B wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:51:23 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
Jessica B wrote:
Ok, so I have a sailing question about anchors... obviously there are
different anchors for different situations, but you don't necessarily
know what you're going to find when you go someplace? So, how do you
decide what anchor to take with you? Clearly, as you said, you can
take two (or three?) but they must eventually get kind of heavy... I
guess there must be guides, but what if you're going to visit several
places and they're all different?

Hopefully, this question is good enough for Justin! Sheesh...
Take them all!

And in the end, weight counts.

Weight counts but weight isn't the be-all/end-all.

A lighter patent anchor that digs in and buries itself can hold better than
a heavy 'navy type' anchor that does not, for example.

And, too much weight on the bow can be detrimental to the pitching moment of
a small sailboat.


Wilbur Hubbard


Among my collection of anchors are two Danforth types.
One is steel and heavy. The other is aluminum and very light.
Both are the same size.

What little use I've given them still shows that the heavy anchor
holds better.

Isn't that sort of obvious? Then why would you carry the lighter one?

Lunch hook.

It's a lot easier to raise (hey, it's lighter!)
My foredeck is strictly female territory.

And handy for a 2 point snag.
It (the aluminum hook) hangs on a bracket on the stern rail where I can
drop it quickly if the need should arise.

But the steel anchor is my "best bower".

Do you keep the stern anchor rode permanently shackled on? Or, as I
used to, store it away in a locker.... somewhere?
Cheers,

Bruce

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:19:38 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

Jessica B wrote:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 19:27:05 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

Jessica B wrote:
Ok, so I have a sailing question about anchors... obviously there are
different anchors for different situations, but you don't necessarily
know what you're going to find when you go someplace? So, how do you
decide what anchor to take with you? Clearly, as you said, you can
take two (or three?) but they must eventually get kind of heavy... I
guess there must be guides, but what if you're going to visit several
places and they're all different?

Hopefully, this question is good enough for Justin! Sheesh...

Take them all!

And in the end, weight counts.

Hi Richard, Well, I guess I was concerned that it would be alot of
space and weight. Aren't there anchors that overlap as far as use
goes?

Yes on space and weight. The Rodes especially. I have three now -
250 to 300 feet each. AND chain (need more of that still)

That's ALOT of rope!! You must have a pretty big boat! Do tell...


Not really for the overlap...

A Danforth is good with mud and sand.
But it's not great in rocks.

Like Wilbur pointed out, a Herrschoff pattern (and a heavy Navy pattern)
work well in rocky crags.

Fishermen use a mushroom type, but I have no use for that on a sailboat.

I was just looking up anchor types... How about a Bruce... but then
you'd have to import it from Thailand! LOL (sorry Bruce...)


Geeze woman. Weren't you paying attention when the guy on rec.boats was
trying to teach you about anchors?


--
Waldo

Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:14:47 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

Jessica B wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:51:23 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
Jessica B wrote:
Ok, so I have a sailing question about anchors... obviously there are
different anchors for different situations, but you don't necessarily
know what you're going to find when you go someplace? So, how do you
decide what anchor to take with you? Clearly, as you said, you can
take two (or three?) but they must eventually get kind of heavy... I
guess there must be guides, but what if you're going to visit several
places and they're all different?

Hopefully, this question is good enough for Justin! Sheesh...
Take them all!

And in the end, weight counts.
Weight counts but weight isn't the be-all/end-all.

A lighter patent anchor that digs in and buries itself can hold better than
a heavy 'navy type' anchor that does not, for example.

And, too much weight on the bow can be detrimental to the pitching moment of
a small sailboat.


Wilbur Hubbard


Among my collection of anchors are two Danforth types.
One is steel and heavy. The other is aluminum and very light.
Both are the same size.

What little use I've given them still shows that the heavy anchor
holds better.
Isn't that sort of obvious? Then why would you carry the lighter one?
Lunch hook.

It's a lot easier to raise (hey, it's lighter!)
My foredeck is strictly female territory.

And handy for a 2 point snag.
It (the aluminum hook) hangs on a bracket on the stern rail where I can
drop it quickly if the need should arise.

But the steel anchor is my "best bower".

Do you keep the stern anchor rode permanently shackled on? Or, as I
used to, store it away in a locker.... somewhere?
Cheers,

Bruce

Usually in a bucket in the cockpit locker.

Which brings me to a point shackles.

The traditional U shaped shackle with a screw in pin
verses
the flattened O shaped thingie with a screw barrel on one side.

I use the latter - a big one.
It's quick, simple, no pin to lose and can be done by hand alone.

But YMMV?



--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

Bruce wrote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 02:39:18 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

Jessica B wrote:
I was just looking up anchor types... How about a Bruce... but then
you'd have to import it from Thailand! LOL (sorry Bruce...)


Hey Bruce!
Send me one of your anchors?


If you really, really, want a Bruce then pick one out:

http://www.viking-moorings.com/Porta...in%20shank.pdf


Cheers,

Bruce


Jeez, Bruce!
Nothing smaller than 500 pounds???

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

On 2/16/2011 7:58 PM, Jessica B wrote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:34:28 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica wrote in message
...
snip

Jessica, this is a repeat in case you didn't see the one from 'Gregory
Hall'.


Ok, well, I can get pasty. :}

But probably not *as pasty* as those Canadians who live where it's so cold
that their skin never sees any sun for months at a time. At least you go to
the beach from time to time so you might have some evidence of tan lines??

I thiink I did see it.. I suppose I do have such evidence. :-)

I might have to take a flight in the next couple of months, so thanks
for reminding me!
You're welcome. ;-) Perhaps you'll think of me when you're all crammed in
there . . .
Next to obese people? Nah... I'll be thinking of someone in better
shape than that!

Ouch! That means you think I'm in bad shape? Who's your favorite male
celebrity - better shape-wise?
Noooo... not at all. From your pic you look like you're in very good
shape. If you ride even half as much as you said you do, then you're
in way better shape than 90% of the people...

Celebrity? Hmmm.... male celebrity I'm guessing.. ok.

This link is pretty strange, but here's my answer...

http://backseatcuddler.com/2007/09/0...crazy-italian/

snip

Two (anchors) of(f) the front? I guess you could put them away from each
other somehow. Otherwise they'd get all tangled. How deep do you anchor
typically? I guess in the Keys it must be pretty shallow... like 10 to
20 feet? If less than that don't you worry about waves picking up the
boat and letting it land on the bottom.. or is that impossible?

You've sure got a good head on your shoulders, girl. Yes, two anchors off
the bow as in "Bahamian Style" which is anchors placed about 60 degrees
apart as described by the angle of the anchor rodes. In a tidal current
they
are places slightly up current and slight down current so when the tide
and
current changes the boat still lies between both with relatively equal
pulls. In a wind only situation one places the anchors more like 90-120
degrees apart and this holds the bow directly into the wind and it doesn't
sheer around.
So, that's what they do in the Bahamas? I've never been, but it's
pretty close to you? How do you get the second anchor in the right
place? You can't put them in at the same time, so you must have to get
the boat to the second spot. It must be tough to judge where it is in
relation to the first one, since it's on the bottom.

It takes a little practice but it's not overly difficult. Many places in the
Bahamas develop some pretty strong tidal currents and it changes directions
twice a day so, yes, if you want to stay put you really need two anchors set
out across the current and well dug in.

The Bahamas are pretty close by - probably about the same distance offshore
as Santa Catalina Island out there but there are hundreds of little and
larger islands out there. One can sail for months and not come close to
visiting them all. Most are not even inhabited. It's a wonderful cruising
ground.
Sail for months... wow... so cool. I wish I had that kind of time!

Placing the anchors can be made into a comedy of errors using the
'committee' approach and/or using the motor and yacht tender (dinghy) or it
can be done correctly and simply like I do it when single-handing. So called
sailors like Bruce, for example, probably never set two anchors,
Bahamian-style, under sail but I can and do set them that way all the time
and it is a no fuss - no muss operation when done in a seamanlike fashion.

Here is how a real sailor does it.

1) Sail into the anchorage and proceed upwind close hauled on a port tack to
the place a fifty feet or so to the right of where you wish the boat to end
up. I like about ten feet of depth in clear water so the bottom can be
easily seen.
Ok... I looked up close haul and port tack.. so close to the direction
where the wind is coming and going to the right..

2) Pinch into the wind and coast to a halt with sails luffing.
Pinch? So the sails flap around and you lose momentum... got it.

3) Go forward, release the jib halyard at the mast cleat and quickly roll
and stow the sail along the starboard lifelines out of the way. Release and
drop the anchor that is ready on the starboard bow roller and quickly pay
out about 100 feet of anchor rode (easy to know provided the rode is marked)
as the boat slowly gathers sternway. Make the line fast to a cleat.
Umm... don't you have to keep the boat going in the right direction?
Isn't it going to wander off or ?

Sure are a lot of terms to look up... lifelines? For safety? Anchor
rode.. but this isn't chain right? It's rope.

Do you have to worry about pulling the cleat off the boat if it stops
suddenly?? Seems like a boat weighing...? 2500 lbs and a sudden stop?
It depends on how fast it's going but still...

4) Proceed back to the cockpit, unsheet the mainsail from its close-hauled
position and put the tiller over to port which will cause the bow to fall
off to port due to the sternway.
Ok, I'm going to have to draw this I think.. sigh..

5) Sheet the mainsail to a reaching position on a starboard tack and the
boat will soon stop its sternway and commence moving forward away from the
dropped anchor which will appear by the direction of the rode to be off the
starboard beam. This all should be accomplished prior to the anchor rode
snubbing up on the dropped anchor or the bow will come into the wind again
and the mainsail will be ineffective. 50-60 feet of 'spare' rode length
would be about right.
I think I understand... basically, you sail up to one spot, then back
off and sail up to the other.

6) As the boat gathers headway, sheet in the mainsail so the sail attacks
the shifting wind at the proper angle of attack until it becomes close
hauled again (but on a port tack this time as the bow slowly rounds up.

7) As the 100 or so feet of the anchor rode off to starboard starts to
tighten up it will be dragged over to about a 60-90 degree angle from the
anchor (180 degrees being directly downwind). When the boats gets as far
upwind as she will go and the starboard anchor pulls the bow directly into
the wind then go forward and drop the anchor that is ready on the port bow
roller.

8) Once the anchor strikes bottom, pay out some line and jerk the rode a few
times to set the anchor in the bottom as the boat falls back between the two
anchors and then pay out about fifty feet of rode and make it fast on a
cleat. Then uncleat the starboard anchor rode and slowly retrieve about
fifty feet of rode and make it fast to a cleat. The boat will then be lying
between the two anchors with the angle described by the anchors of about
90-120 degrees. If one or more of the anchors don't hold the angle will
decrease. If they hold the angle will remain constant.

9) On your way back to the cockpit stop at the mast and release the main
halyard and let the mainsail fall and strap it to the boom.

10) Look around and note some readily apparent ranges (objects you can line
up one behind the other) ashore so you can reference them later to make sure
you're not dragging.

11) Go below, grab a cold beer, sit in the cockpit and enjoy but check the
ranges over several minutes. If the ranges don't change then you can assume
the anchors are both holding. If you really want to feel secure, grab the
mask, snorkel and fins and dive the anchors and make sure they are well dug
in so you can sleep soundly that night.

This scenario is for non-current, wind only situations. It must be modified
somewhat or quite a bit depending on the direction and strength of tidal
currents, if any.
I'm going to print this out! I definitely got the part about the cold
beer, diving on the anchors and sleeping soundly. :-)

I generally prefer to anchor in relatively shallow water - around six feet
at mean low water. Yes, the Keys have very shallow water in many places.
As
for waves picking up the boat and slamming it on the bottom that's not
likely to happen in wind-generated wave action, at least. See, it's the
depth of the water that determines the height of the wave and the depth of
the wave trough in shallow water. In six-foot deep water the largest
wind-generated wave possible would be about three feet. So, that would
still
give a three-foot cushion for a 3-foot draught boot in one fathom of
depth -
one fathom being six feet.
Ok... I get it I think, and if it's really, really bad weather, you
could put the boat somewhere where it's more protected...
Right. They call them 'hurricane holes'. They are generally smaller places
with high sides and good holding.
Do you ever do this?

Tech away! I get jargon thrown at me all the time from contractors...
I was riding with a gf of mine and she tells me she hears a noise from
under the car, so I said I know what that is.. Really??? Well, yeah,
it's the band clatter of either the drive shaft or the transmission...
now if it's the drive shaft then it's not too serious, but if it's the
transmission, well you might be able to get someone to adjust it but
it probably needs to get replaced. She was amazed and then angry when
I told her I made it all up.

See how devilish you are, Jessica? You made it all up. That's funny! Can
you say, "instigator?" LOL!

As for teching away, I probably teched away plenty enough above. LOL! It
wouldn't surprise me if even the likes of Bruce, Waldo, WaIIy, Wayne,
JustinC, etc. are scratching their addled pates and scrambling for the
sailing reference guides.
I was looking on the book wall at the gym and saw Sailing for Dummies!
:-)
Couldn't you hear it crying out for you to pick it up? Really now. You
have been posting here for two months and you still know squat about boats.

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:22:02 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
. ..
snip

I have no idea where the Florida Bay is... is that on the west side?
I'm guessing, but it seems like there's ocean all around.

Florida Bay is the water between the Keys and the mainland peninsular.
Much
of it is way too shallow except for canoes, kayaks, etc. It has lots of
little mangrove islands. But, closer to the Keys island chain the water is
deep enough to sail and the Intracoastal Waterway runs though it.



Oh... Fort Jefferson... I looked it up and it looks like it's the same
as the Dry Tortugas, which is what I was thinking of...

http://www.nps.gov/drto/index.htm

That looks beautiful! Can your boat go there?


Sure she can. I've never been out there but it would make a nice trip.
Probably would take a couple weeks to do a round trip right.


According to google maps it's about 60 or 70 miles away?

Sounds about right.

I guess you
have to be good at navigation! That would leave me out. :-(

Jessica, you'd make a good fisherman. LOL! Of course you'd never be left
out. I could give you a handheld GPS, chart navigation, private lesson you'd
understand in less than five minutes. All you'd have to do is make the
cursor (boat) follow the line to the waypoint(s). Bruce in Bangkok might
have trouble doing so as he's become somewhat feeble-minded in his dotage
but I'm sure you could handle it.

Or, you could go due south and go to Cuba! Even I could figure that
out!

I wish the stupid U.S. government would allow citizens to take a sailboat
cruise to Cuba but they don't unless you jump though all kinds of ridiculous
hoops. I've looked at the charts and there is some fine sailing to be had
along the north coast of Cuba. Looks like thousands of little barrier
islands with a bay or sound between them and the big island. Can you speak
any Spanish?

"HarryK" wrote in message
...
snip

Couldn't you hear it crying out for you to pick it up? Really now. You
have been posting here for two months and you still know squat about
boats.


Maybe she's not learned a thing from your like because you know NOTHING
about sailing?

But, you might have inadvertently made a good point, in spite of yourself,
Harry. Practical experience is worth way more than book learning. If Jessica
is serious about learning as much about sailing in as short a period as
possible she will just have to go sailing. I'm sure a girl of her many
charms could find many a sailboat in California that would love her to crew
on a week-end or a holiday. In the meantime she can read about it here and
elsewhere to get a general foundation of understanding.



Wilbur Hubbard

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 11:41:46 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
. ..
trimmed a lot
Ok, so I have a sailing question about anchors... obviously there are
different anchors for different situations, but you don't necessarily
know what you're going to find when you go someplace? So, how do you
decide what anchor to take with you? Clearly, as you said, you can
take two (or three?) but they must eventually get kind of heavy... I
guess there must be guides, but what if you're going to visit several
places and they're all different?

Hopefully, this question is good enough for Justin! Sheesh...



At least he's not dumb enough to still think you're my sock puppet.

Yes, you don't necessarily know what's on the bottom when you go someplace
but you can refer to the charts of the area and they will tell you what's
on
the bottom so you have a good idea beforehand what's the most suitable
anchor type to use for a given anchorage.

A real cruising sailor will ship multiple anchors so he is ready for any
and
all conditions of wind, sea and bottom. I carry about seven anchors all
told
but only have three ready to go at all times. The others are stowed low in
the bilges. The others are storm anchors and spare anchors to be used in
severe conditions.

Ok... so, in another comment you said keeping all the weight on the
bow isn't good, so you must put them elsewhere? I would think in the
middle of the boat but is there really a place like that.

I did say that but everything ends up being somewhat of a compromise on a
sailboat. It is not a good idea to have too much weight on the ends but the
compromise is it's important to have adequate ground tackle at the ready on
the bow. Working anchors on the bow are a compromise but a good and safe
one. Any spare or heavy storm anchors, however should be stored low and
towards the center of the yacht. Most boats have various lockers and bilge
access where a spare anchor or two can be stowed out of the way yet still be
not too hard to get to in a pinch.

Ready on the bow I have a Danforth Deepset, a CQR plow and a Herreschoff
fisherman (this is the only one that looks like a traditional anchor to a
lubber). Sized for the boat, the anchors aren't prohibitively heavy. All
told, I have about 80 pounds on the bow from anchors/chain/line. With that
I'm ready for just about any bottom type.

I would be that lubber! LOL I'll have to see what the others look
like...


Google images is your friend.

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
snip

Exactly. If you're married, you should, well, act married. If you're
single, you're single.

Have you ever been married? So, who exactly was the woman? LOL You
don't have to tell me if you don't want. You're over 18!

I was married once when I young. Got married at 21. Got divorced at 27.
Never remarried. No kids. Have you ever been married?

Woman? What woman. ROFLOL!

I was having this same basic conversation with my niece... she's just
getting to the age when boys are more than annoying... She told me she
wants to "date" this guy from school, but I don't think she really
understand the emotional vulnerability that it includes. I told her go
slow and bring him home so parents can check him out.

Probably "date" has a different meaning for her than for older folks. Didn't
you say she was still pretty young?

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 12:10:42 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
. ..
snip


I just want to know who the fricken woman was who was on your boat!!!
lol

Surely, you're not the jealous type?

She's the one I mentioned who ran a background check on me to make sure I
wasn't some criminal or pervert. She took that video about six years ago
now
when she came down for a visit. We're still friends.

Jealous? Me?? hahahaha... no.. just wondering.

What did she find out? LOL

Smartass! One good thing about a fit girl who is only 5'5" is it's no har
task to take her over my knee and spank some courtesy into her. LOL!


It's nice you're still friends... that counts for something!

Oftentimes things don't work out for love and romance and living happily
ever after but that's no reason to dislike somebody.