Yea, I come here for boat information not to hear someone's political views.
I think those political people need to find alt.politics.



"Joe Parsons" wrote in message
...
...is that, for starters, we often see aspects of people we'd be far
better off
*not* seeing. Sure--it's easy to characterize them as "marina bar chat;"
but
that is NOT what much of this is. Is it really likely that there would be
these
kinds of acrimonious, polarizing discussions, replete with namecalling and
speculation about personal habits and ancestry in an actual bar? Of
course not!
But the quasi-anonymity of Usenet seems often to give license for behavior
that
would be unnacceptable--and even dangerous--in real life.

It's easy to say "just use your filters and shaddup" when people complain
about
these highly unpleasant (and invariably unproductive) threads; but just as
people can't avoid slowing to gape at accidents on the freeway, people
will
continue to read these threads. And they'll get a certain impression of
the
newsgroup, just as they would if they went into a yacht club or marina bar
and
found many of the regulars involved in loud, bitter, interminable and
pointless
political discussions.

For my part, when I see the namecalling and personal insults, the
polarized
thinking on both sides, it tends to give me a very unfavorable picture of
ALL
the participants--and if I were seeing that behavior in a yacht club or
marina
bar, I'd do a fast 180 and get out of there.

I think the same thing happens on Usenet as happens in The Real
World(tm)--people go where they feel comfortable, and where they feel they
can
contribute and receive value.

Most of the time, in my observation, that's not happening here--even in
spite of
a number of regulars who keep trying to guide the conversation back to
boating.
I often wonder how many people here actually spend time on boats.

I have kept my own political views (and they are views that I hold dear)
out of
this newsgroup--but if someone were to call me "light in the loafers" for
being
a Democrat, or a "fascist" for being a Republican, I'd immediately lose
interest
in any sort of participation here.

I don't think I'm alone in that respect.

Joe Parsons
FWIW

Rec.boats isn't purely a spectator sport.

There is a disturbing lack of civility in many of the discussions, both OT and
ON.
That's a greater problem than the fact that the conversation drifts off topic.

We have at least one poster who takes pride in the fact that he only comes here
to
cause trouble, and then immediately blames that on individuals holding opposite
philosophical viewpoints.

It is a bit puzzling how, so often, the people who post the loudest protests
about the signal to noise ratio and the lack of significant boating content in
the NG never contribute any boating content *to* the group.

The content of the group is configured by what we all put in- what we take out
or choose to filter has no effect on the overall character of the group.

Aren't enough boating discussions? Start one.

Chuck,
Whomever said they come here to "start trouble" is just being honest. The
majority of the regulars come here to argue their favorite cause and try to
make their opponents looks foolish, ignorant of just to get his goat.

The regulars who come here to discuss boating are few and far in-between,
they have been chased away ages ago.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Rec.boats isn't purely a spectator sport.

There is a disturbing lack of civility in many of the discussions, both OT
and
ON.
That's a greater problem than the fact that the conversation drifts off
topic.

We have at least one poster who takes pride in the fact that he only comes
here
to
cause trouble, and then immediately blames that on individuals holding
opposite
philosophical viewpoints.

It is a bit puzzling how, so often, the people who post the loudest
protests
about the signal to noise ratio and the lack of significant boating
content in
the NG never contribute any boating content *to* the group.

The content of the group is configured by what we all put in- what we take
out
or choose to filter has no effect on the overall character of the group.

Aren't enough boating discussions? Start one.

Chuck,
Whomever said they come here to "start trouble" is just being honest. The
majority of the regulars come here to argue their favorite cause and try to
make their opponents looks foolish, ignorant of just to get his goat.

The regulars who come here to discuss boating are few and far in-between,
they have been chased away ages ago.



Without going waaaay back, we're still runing a 3:1 ratio of on topic *threads*
vs.
off topic threads. Of the last 59 threads initiated in rec.boats, 45 had some
direct relevance to boating and 14 did not.

Problem is in the number of posts.

Example:

I.M. Uhground posts: "Where is the secondary fuel filter on my Spitz and Putz
inboard?"

Hal P Fulwrench replies: "Look under the second framus past the diogenator."

End of thread, two posts.

Example two:

Left wing Louie posts: "Bush is a war criminal!"

Right wing Rickie replies:"No, he's a hero and you liberals are all
traitors........"

And 450 posts follow. 225 from the right, 225 from the left, with insults and
bad manners split equally between the pair. End of thread nowhere in
sight.......


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Rec.boats isn't purely a spectator sport.

There is a disturbing lack of civility in many of the discussions, both OT
and
ON.
That's a greater problem than the fact that the conversation drifts off
topic.

We have at least one poster who takes pride in the fact that he only comes
here
to
cause trouble, and then immediately blames that on individuals holding
opposite
philosophical viewpoints.

It is a bit puzzling how, so often, the people who post the loudest
protests
about the signal to noise ratio and the lack of significant boating
content in
the NG never contribute any boating content *to* the group.

The content of the group is configured by what we all put in- what we take
out
or choose to filter has no effect on the overall character of the group.

Aren't enough boating discussions? Start one.

Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no
idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn
the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off
topic threads.

How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate?

The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't
start any.

You know Chuck you act like you are a saint in this whole mess. And that is the
furthest thing from the truth. Granted, you post one or two boating related items, but
the far majority of your posts are political. You and Harry have been involved in the
mudslinging and OT political posts long before most of us have been here.

Yes, I admitted I come here for the politics. I never said, however, that I come here
to cause trouble and I challenge you to find where I said that....because I did not.

Move out of that glass house before you start throwing stones.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no
idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn
the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off
topic threads.

How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate?

The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't
start any.

Yes, I admitted I come here for the politics. I never said, however, that I
come here
to cause trouble and I challenge you to find where I said that....because I
did not.

To paraphrase Carly Simon: You're so vain, you probably think each post is
about you........

Challenge back to you. Where did I say that "Jim stated he is only here to
cause trouble"? Without that, your concern is completely ridiculous. I don't
recall mentioning you by name at all. What makes you think I was even referring
to you? Why would I?

You know Chuck you act like you are a saint in this whole mess. And that is
the
furthest thing from the truth. Granted, you post one or two boating related
items, but
the far majority of your posts are political. You and Harry have been
involved in the
mudslinging and OT political posts long before most of us have been
here.

I don't sling much mud, and whatever direction the NG takes is up to the
majority of participants. It isn't determined by one or two people. Personally,
if you want to talk boats, I can participate in most discussions (except I
don't know much about outboards, sailing, carbs, and a few other subjects). If
you want to talk politics, I can do that too.

For every Yin there's a Yang. Blaming the political threads solely on the left
or the right is ridiculous. Follow one through- typically goes
l,r,l,r,l,r,l,r,l,r, etc. Only difference most of the time is who goes first,
and over the long run that tends to be about 50/50.

I am not complaining, I am making an observation. I have accepted the fact
that the NG is a venue to discuss politics and make rabid accusations
concerning anyone who disagrees with your philosophy.

If I was moderating a NG would I would not allow the personal attacks and
the off topic political discussion, because it does nothing towards building
a community. It's only purpose is to divide the community. But, this is
not a moderated NG, so all I am doing is making the observation that the
majority of the regulars come here to argue and call each other "trash".

Do you disagree with my observation?


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have
no
idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn
the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off
topic threads.

How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate?

The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't
start any.

I am not complaining, I am making an observation. I have accepted the fact
that the NG is a venue to discuss politics and make rabid accusations
concerning anyone who disagrees with your philosophy.

If I was moderating a NG would I would not allow the personal attacks and
the off topic political discussion, because it does nothing towards building
a community. It's only purpose is to divide the community. But, this is
not a moderated NG, so all I am doing is making the observation that the
majority of the regulars come here to argue and call each other "trash".

Do you disagree with my observation?


I think you have a specific regular in mind when you use "trash" as the
commonly exchanged offensive moniker. My frank opinion is that you are quicker
to criticize the left leaning OT posters than the right.
That has to be OK, since I am quicker to criticize the right leaners than the
left. We should all be aware that our own bias usually shows through.

I don't disagree entirely. I see redeeming value in most of the posters, from
both (or all) sides of most issues provided they have a genuine interest in
boats and boating. There have been several instances of posters who appear
*only* to fire off anonymous flames and, when anybody calls them on this
behavior they say "I could give a rip about boating, I'm only here because you
have some GD liberals (or conservatives) that require my enlightened flaming."

You can't have a viable boating NG if a large percentage of the participants
don't own a boat, (or own a boat but never use it), and don't care aboat
boating one way or the other. What are these people going to talk about?
Certainly won't be boats or boating.

Boaters have the option to post on topic or off. Non-boaters have nothing of
substance to contribute on topic, beyond the "I'm looking for a boat and need
opinions on.........." type of thread.

Anybody who feels like a helpless victim of the NG content should consider
bringing more on-topic ideas to the forum.

One of the reasons you don't see more "pros" posting here is that the first
time anybody in the engine business or brokerage business or accessory and
supply business mentions a product or service that they perform and are
therefore
extremely familiar with, one of two or three "usual suspects" will get on that
person's case about spamming the NG. Were you around when Dave Brown posted
here? There's a good example. Very good outboard mechanic, and a gentleman.
Everytime he said "boo" he was subjected to a relentless onslaught of flaming
from an individual poster who had a low opinion of a brand of outboard motors
he sold in his shop and who had a differing opinion of the
technology associated with those engines.
The flaming went well beyond the engine technology, with Dave's personal morals
and ethics being challenged because he would dare sell such a "defective"
product.
He must have been called "spammer" a thousand times. One poster announced an
intention to drive Dave Brown from the NG, and crowed about "victory" when it
was finally accomplished.

Even Peggie Hall has had to endure some
harsh, mean spirited, criticism for offering advise on her areas of expertise.
Has always been an odd double standard: If you work as a truck driver, radio
repairman, shoe salesman, plant manager, or accountant, your opinion on some
technical aspect of boating is welcomed by all. If you actually make a living
in the field and dare to post anything based on your professional experience,
expect to be
loudly criticized for "spamming."


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have
no
idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn
the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off
topic threads.

How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate?

The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't
start any.

On 03 Sep 2003 05:09:52 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Most of the on topic posts are done by newbie's stumbling in. They have no
idea rec.boats is all about politics. The regulars are the ones who turn
the on topic posts into off topic posts and start the majority of the off
topic threads.

How many of the 45 on-topic threads did you originate?

The regulars can't complain about a lack of on-topic threads if they don't
start any.


I disagree.

I **look** for newbie posts, to see if I can help somebody out. If I
can, or think I can, I respond. About 1 in 1000, I start a thread,
and only the boaters respond: which is OK by me.

rec.boats.lounge

noah