In article , Gogarty wrote:
In article , says...


Dave wrote in
:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:49:30 -0000, Larry W4CSC said:

Many of the unconstitutional stops

This from another of what we used to call in the Navy a "sea-lawyer?"

Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27


It is illegal and unconstitutional to stop you in your car for no reason
other than the cop wants to go on a fishing expedition in your trunk.....

Why is this different in my boat? Why can the cop go on a fishing
expedition in my boat's "trunk" without a constitutional reason for
stopping me in the first place? Why do boaters like Dave become
conditioned to accept this on the water? What's the difference?

Larry W4CSC

Illegal Search and Seizure is illegal search and seizure.....


On accounta it's not illegal. The Supreme Court ruled nearly 200 years ago
that vessels are different and may be stopped and searched for any reason or
no reason. At the time, the concern was smuggling and recreational vessels
weren't in mind at all. The Court has had many opportunities to revisit the
issue and has declined to do so. You live-aboards do not have the
Constitutional rights of the rest of us. Of course, since the Patruiot Act
and before, none of us has many rights left.


The phrase "equal protection of the laws" within the 14th Amendment to the
Constitution applies only to prohibiting *States* from subjecting citizens to
unequal protection of the laws.

The federal government is free to treat citizens unequally, for example,
denying the "protection of the laws" enjoyed by citizens residing in land
locked homes to citizens living in homes that float.

But, as has been pointed out, even citizens living in land locked homes are
having their legal protections eroded. Perhaps we will soon achieve "equal
protection of the laws" via the erosion of protections for all citizens.

In article ,
Larry W4CSC wrote:

It is illegal and unconstitutional to stop you in your car for no reason
other than the cop wants to go on a fishing expedition in your trunk.....

Why is this different in my boat? Why can the cop go on a fishing
expedition in my boat's "trunk" without a constitutional reason for
stopping me in the first place? Why do boaters like Dave become
conditioned to accept this on the water? What's the difference?

Larry W4CSC

Illegal Search and Seizure is illegal search and seizure.....

This is very simple Larry. Your local "Man" (cops) operate under US
Local, State, and Federal Law. The USCG operates under International
Maritime Law, and Federal Statues. Two totally different sets of Law
and Juresprudence. Most International Maritime Law dates back to
the early 1500's and is big on AntiPirating, which was the scourge
of the Higgh Seas back then. If your inside US waters it doesn't matter
what Flag you fly, USCG can and does Board you at their whim. If your
a US Flag thenUSCG can board you anywhere,anytime at their whim.
If your a forein Flag and in International Waters, they must receive
Permission of you Flag's Government to board, unless they have
"Cause to believe that you have committed one of the Actionable Offenses
inside US Waters and are fleeing, or you are a Pirate.

Bruce in alaska who wouldn't want to be classed as a pirate
--
add a 2 before @

In article ,
Larry W4CSC wrote:

It is illegal and unconstitutional to stop you in your car for no reason
other than the cop wants to go on a fishing expedition in your trunk.....

Why is this different in my boat? Why can the cop go on a fishing
expedition in my boat's "trunk" without a constitutional reason for
stopping me in the first place? Why do boaters like Dave become
conditioned to accept this on the water? What's the difference?

Larry W4CSC

Illegal Search and Seizure is illegal search and seizure.....

This is very simple Larry. Your local "Man" (cops) operate under US
Local, State, and Federal Law. The USCG operates under International
Maritime Law, and Federal Statues. Two totally different sets of Law
and Juresprudence. Most International Maritime Law dates back to
the early 1500's and is big on AntiPirating, which was the scourge
of the Higgh Seas back then. If your inside US waters it doesn't matter
what Flag you fly, USCG can and does Board you at their whim. If your
a US Flag thenUSCG can board you anywhere,anytime at their whim.
If your a forein Flag and in International Waters, they must receive
Permission of you Flag's Government to board, unless they have
"Cause to believe that you have committed one of the Actionable Offenses
inside US Waters and are fleeing, or you are a Pirate.

Bruce in alaska who wouldn't want to be classed as a pirate
--
add a 2 before @

Where does it say this - I looked but can't find it - what law,
directive, statute - and what countries in the treaties??


The USCG
can stop and board any US vessel anywhere, any vessel in US
territorial waters, and many other vessels anywhere by treaty
agreement with their countries of registry.

Where does it say this - I looked but can't find it - what law,
directive, statute - and what countries in the treaties??


The USCG
can stop and board any US vessel anywhere, any vessel in US
territorial waters, and many other vessels anywhere by treaty
agreement with their countries of registry.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:21:03 -0700, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

Wow - am I ever glad I live in Canada! I've NEVER been stopped or boarded: not
in 40 years of boating on everything from runabouts to skiffs to dinghies to
36-ft sailboats.

(I've also never been asked for my fishing license. Go figure...)

Lloyd
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Hmm. Try living in the State of Victoria, Australia. Our State Gov
just sees yachties and boaties as a revenue stream. You need a
liscence for your boat (we get around that since we're registered as a
ship with the Commonwealth Gov) plus a personal annual liscence for
anyone who might move the boat under power. Serious penalties if you
let an unliscenced friend "have a go" one day. The test itself has
nothing to do with driving a boat! Oh, and fishing permits of course.

And you can be stopped by the Water Police, Coatguard and Fisheries.

We've been stopped a few times because we don't have the State boat
liscence showing. We point out we don't need one and that we have the
ships number on our stern. They tell us it is too small - it is if it
were a State registration number, but it's fine as a Commonwealth
registration. We show them our letter from the State Marine Board
confirming we are exempt from the State liscence. To protect it, it's
sealed in clear plastic - they complain they can't check it's legit.

To make themselves feel useful, they check the safety gear ("Yes, the
fire blanket is up to date with its certification") and sometimes
breathalyse you for good measure before zooming off.

I have no problem with safety gear checks. Our Water Police are
bloody good, but I feel realy sorry them being dragged into this
paperwork war so the fat pollie cats in Spring Street can go on
another fact finding misson to Barbados!

Peter

www.oceanodyssey.net

Peter & Jean looking for sponsors for the Melbourne-Osaka in 2007, and
promising we will get round to updating our website this year.

"Do not measure your life by the number of breaths you take,
Rather by the number of times life just takes your breath away"

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:21:03 -0700, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

Wow - am I ever glad I live in Canada! I've NEVER been stopped or boarded: not
in 40 years of boating on everything from runabouts to skiffs to dinghies to
36-ft sailboats.

(I've also never been asked for my fishing license. Go figure...)

Lloyd
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Hmm. Try living in the State of Victoria, Australia. Our State Gov
just sees yachties and boaties as a revenue stream. You need a
liscence for your boat (we get around that since we're registered as a
ship with the Commonwealth Gov) plus a personal annual liscence for
anyone who might move the boat under power. Serious penalties if you
let an unliscenced friend "have a go" one day. The test itself has
nothing to do with driving a boat! Oh, and fishing permits of course.

And you can be stopped by the Water Police, Coatguard and Fisheries.

We've been stopped a few times because we don't have the State boat
liscence showing. We point out we don't need one and that we have the
ships number on our stern. They tell us it is too small - it is if it
were a State registration number, but it's fine as a Commonwealth
registration. We show them our letter from the State Marine Board
confirming we are exempt from the State liscence. To protect it, it's
sealed in clear plastic - they complain they can't check it's legit.

To make themselves feel useful, they check the safety gear ("Yes, the
fire blanket is up to date with its certification") and sometimes
breathalyse you for good measure before zooming off.

I have no problem with safety gear checks. Our Water Police are
bloody good, but I feel realy sorry them being dragged into this
paperwork war so the fat pollie cats in Spring Street can go on
another fact finding misson to Barbados!

Peter

www.oceanodyssey.net

Peter & Jean looking for sponsors for the Melbourne-Osaka in 2007, and
promising we will get round to updating our website this year.

"Do not measure your life by the number of breaths you take,
Rather by the number of times life just takes your breath away"

Around the Kemah / Galveston Bay area, the best way to be boarded is to have
a bunch of bikinis or even less scantily clad beauties in plain view. That's
about all the watercops pay any attention to around here. You could scream
through the no wake zone at 50 mph and they couldn't care less... I guess
the equivalent of doughnut shops on the water.

--


Keith
__
'No, `Eureka' is Greek for `this bath is too hot.'' -- Dr. Who
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
(Capt Lou) wrote in
:

If the Coast Guard continues to board vessels with the latest CGAUX
safe boating decals displayed, why bother getting a decal? How many
times a month does a boat need to be boarded and inspected? Besides,
the 2004 USCGAUX decal has an isnurance company's name printed on it.
I am cutting it off of mine.


You should own a jetboat in Charleston, Capt Lou. There are several
police
bureaucracies all looking for targets:
City of Charleston
County of Charleston
USCG
Dept of Natural Resources dressed up like SWAT teams in camo'd boats you
can't see in the dark trying to kill themselves and the person who ran
over
them. They think Wappoo Cut is in the Mekong Delta and are playing GI
Joe.

My little yellow Sea Rayder had the USCG-AUX current decal on it and I
even
pointed it out to the Coasties. It meant nothing and was a waste of my
boating time to get the boat inspected. The inspection report from the
Coasties WAS worth keeping, however. I kept it handy at the helm to show
the other bureaucrats and they accepted the inspection report, even if it
were a few months old. I simply offered it with my driver's license and
the boat tax verification (registration) card. Showing it passed, only a
few went snooping around in the engine/storage compartment to make sure I
wasn't trying to sneak any Budweiser across the boarder from Mt Pleasant.

Many of the unconstitutional stops-for-no-reason were thinly disguised
drug
raids without warrant or valid reasons. They dug around in the boat, I
think, because there were teens aboard my boat.

It's nonsense and ought to be stopped. I don't remember signing away any
of the Amendments to our Constitution at the DNR boat license
office.......

Larry W4CSC

Around the Kemah / Galveston Bay area, the best way to be boarded is to have
a bunch of bikinis or even less scantily clad beauties in plain view. That's
about all the watercops pay any attention to around here. You could scream
through the no wake zone at 50 mph and they couldn't care less... I guess
the equivalent of doughnut shops on the water.

--


Keith
__
'No, `Eureka' is Greek for `this bath is too hot.'' -- Dr. Who
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
(Capt Lou) wrote in
:

If the Coast Guard continues to board vessels with the latest CGAUX
safe boating decals displayed, why bother getting a decal? How many
times a month does a boat need to be boarded and inspected? Besides,
the 2004 USCGAUX decal has an isnurance company's name printed on it.
I am cutting it off of mine.


You should own a jetboat in Charleston, Capt Lou. There are several
police
bureaucracies all looking for targets:
City of Charleston
County of Charleston
USCG
Dept of Natural Resources dressed up like SWAT teams in camo'd boats you
can't see in the dark trying to kill themselves and the person who ran
over
them. They think Wappoo Cut is in the Mekong Delta and are playing GI
Joe.

My little yellow Sea Rayder had the USCG-AUX current decal on it and I
even
pointed it out to the Coasties. It meant nothing and was a waste of my
boating time to get the boat inspected. The inspection report from the
Coasties WAS worth keeping, however. I kept it handy at the helm to show
the other bureaucrats and they accepted the inspection report, even if it
were a few months old. I simply offered it with my driver's license and
the boat tax verification (registration) card. Showing it passed, only a
few went snooping around in the engine/storage compartment to make sure I
wasn't trying to sneak any Budweiser across the boarder from Mt Pleasant.

Many of the unconstitutional stops-for-no-reason were thinly disguised
drug
raids without warrant or valid reasons. They dug around in the boat, I
think, because there were teens aboard my boat.

It's nonsense and ought to be stopped. I don't remember signing away any
of the Amendments to our Constitution at the DNR boat license
office.......

Larry W4CSC

Larry,
I hear ya, our rights are being revoked, all in the name of terrorism.
Paul

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
snipped
Many of the unconstitutional stops-for-no-reason were thinly disguised
drug
raids without warrant or valid reasons. They dug around in the boat, I
think, because there were teens aboard my boat.

It's nonsense and ought to be stopped. I don't remember signing away any
of the Amendments to our Constitution at the DNR boat license
office.......

Larry W4CSC