Steve Daniels, Seek of Spam wrote:
Simpler is better, at least for me. I have ordered a seat that
will sit on top of a five gallon bucket. You line it with a
plastic garbage bag. Use it, tie the bag shut, and store it
until you find a trash can.

Your guests should just love that! And how do plan to dispose of the
bucket contents? It's illegal to dump 'em overboard within 3 miles of
the nearest point on the whole US coastline....nor can you put the bags
in a trash can or dumpster legally either.


No leaks...no funky odor.

Wanna bet?

Otoh, you'll have so little invested in it that replacing it with a
viable system won't be financially painful. If you want simple and
cheap, why not just go with a portpotty? Carrying it off the boat to
dump down a toilet legally would be no more effort than carrying bags of
toilet waste off the boat to put a dumpster illegally....but would be a
LOT more pleasant to use.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

On Mon, 10 May 2004 15:21:17 GMT, Peggie Hall wrote:

good comments snipped

It does require two vents, and the fan should be be an
exhaust fan that pulls air through, not one that pushes air into the tank.

Peggie, I wondered about your statement above...until it occured to me
that you're entirely correct. The reason (tell me if I'm wrong) is that by
sucking air out, a slightly negative tank pressure is created. This prevents
odors from escaping into the boat via the vent loop, (or any other "air leak"),
which it would if the tank had positive pressure.

I'll probably try this when I (finally) get my own boat, but I'll be sure to
make the fan easily replacable, since I suspect the "fumes" will be
somewhat corrosive.
Norm B.

engsol wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2004 15:21:17 GMT, Peggie Hall wrote:

good comments snipped

It does require two vents, and the fan should be be an
exhaust fan that pulls air through, not one that pushes air into the tank.


Peggie, I wondered about your statement above...until it occured to me
that you're entirely correct. The reason (tell me if I'm wrong) is that by
sucking air out, a slightly negative tank pressure is created. This prevents
odors from escaping into the boat via the vent loop, (or any other "air leak"),
which it would if the tank had positive pressure.

I dunno about that...I think you're over-thinking it. Compare it to an
attic or "whole house" fan in a house, or even a hood fan over a stove.
They pull air out of the house because that's the most efficient way to
do it. To replace/exchange air being pulled out requires a source...in a
house, the source is open windows or doors...in a holding tank tank it's
a second vent line.

I'll probably try this when I (finally) get my own boat, but I'll be sure to
make the fan easily replacable, since I suspect the "fumes" will be
somewhat corrosive.

More often than not, a single 1" diameter short (3') straight vent line
will work all by itself. It's only when the tank location makes a
short straight vent line impossible that more complex solutions are needed.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Peggie, am I remembering correctly that a Type I MSD has to be mounted
lower than the head? In that case, I can never use one 'cause
understandably the head is about as low as you can get on the boat.

Jim.

Peggie Hall wrote:


IMO, a far better solution than any of the above is a Type I MSD (CG
certified device that treats waste and discharges overboard legally in
all waters except those specifically designated "no discharge," which
are few and far between in coastal waters. Why have to deal with the
problems of storing waste aboard if you don't have to?

wrote:
Peggie, am I remembering correctly that a Type I MSD has to be mounted
lower than the head?

No. It only has to sit at OR below the level of the toilet discharge and
be within 6' of the toilet...and a vented loop inline between the toilet
and the device will even allow it to be a little higher. The best pace
on a lot of boats--especially sailboats--is under the vanity in the head.

In that case, I can never use one 'cause
understandably the head is about as low as you can get on the boat.

If that were the case, there wouldn't be much of a market for 'em...'cuz
the heads on most boats are about as low in the boat as you can get.

Btw...this is covered in the installation instructions, which you can
read if you go to the link I gave you.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Peggy

I would really like to install an electrasan or other treatment system, but
as near as I can tell ALL of Lake Michigan and Green Bay have been declared
"No Discharge Zones" by Wisconsin and Michigan -- probably others of the
Great Lakes as well. I seriously dislike the idea of discharging into the
lakes, and understand that it's not legal to do so even though a whole lot
of folks do so anyway. My boat will probably be on the hard until next year
anyway, so it's not an immediate concern, and it won't be on the Great Lakes
forever, but I'd sure appreciate any tips you can give me on this topic. If
it's in your book, I can obtain it. ;-)

--
Karin Conover-Lewis
Fair and Balanced since 1959
klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net

Karin Conover-Lewis wrote:
I would really like to install an electrasan or other treatment system, but
as near as I can tell ALL of Lake Michigan and Green Bay have been declared
"No Discharge Zones" by Wisconsin and Michigan -- probably others of the
Great Lakes as well.

I'm afraid that's true...all the Great Lakes are "no discharge"--in fact
have been so longer than there have been any US marine sanitation laws,
under an agreement with Canada. So till you leave there for coastal
waters, you're stuck with a holding tank.

I seriously dislike the idea of discharging into the
lakes, and understand that it's not legal to do so even though a whole lot
of folks do so anyway.

That's one of the major problems with "no discharge"...several studies
indicate that more people are dumping holding tanks illegally than are
pumping out. Some have no choice due to lack of pumpout facilities--none
within miles, or they're inaccessible, not working or closed...some just
don't care. Yet those who are determined to shove "no discharge" down
our throats don't seem to realize that the raw sewage and chemical
holding tank products in just ONE illegally dumped holding tank has more
negative impact on the environment than a 1,000 boats discharging
treated waste from a Type I or II MSD in the same area.

My boat will probably be on the hard until next year
anyway, so it's not an immediate concern, and it won't be on the Great Lakes
forever, but I'd sure appreciate any tips you can give me on this topic. If
it's in your book, I can obtain it. ;-)

I'd love it if you bought my book, and it does include chapters that
explain US marine sanitation laws, and lists the most popular Type I and
II MSDs and explains how they work...AND how to eliminate holding tank
odor...but I don't think you need it till your boat goes back into the
water.

Meanwhile, the EPA maintains a list of all the "no discharge"
waters...it's at
http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regul...vsdnozone.html

And if you want more detailed information about the advantages of
onboard treatment, email me...I have a large and growing collection of
articles and research reports. You might also pick up a copy of the next
issue of DIY magazine when it comes out...it'll cost you a lot less than
my book.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Peggy

Thanks! That's a good link, and it shows Lake Superior as exempt, but I
don't know that I'll be heading up that way. Maybe Sault St. Marie, but
that's not quite Superior, so a holding tank does still look like my only
bet for now. Well, for then anyway. ;-)

I'll look for the DIY magazine (I think I've seen it at Home Depot and
Menard's) and will probably get your book just because. :-D

--
Karin Conover-Lewis
Fair and Balanced since 1959
klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net


"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Karin Conover-Lewis wrote:
I would really like to install an electrasan or other treatment system,
but
as near as I can tell ALL of Lake Michigan and Green Bay have been
declared
"No Discharge Zones" by Wisconsin and Michigan -- probably others of the
Great Lakes as well.

I'm afraid that's true...all the Great Lakes are "no discharge"--in fact
have been so longer than there have been any US marine sanitation laws,
under an agreement with Canada. So till you leave there for coastal
waters, you're stuck with a holding tank.

I seriously dislike the idea of discharging into the
lakes, and understand that it's not legal to do so even though a whole
lot
of folks do so anyway.

That's one of the major problems with "no discharge"...several studies
indicate that more people are dumping holding tanks illegally than are
pumping out. Some have no choice due to lack of pumpout facilities--none
within miles, or they're inaccessible, not working or closed...some just
don't care. Yet those who are determined to shove "no discharge" down
our throats don't seem to realize that the raw sewage and chemical
holding tank products in just ONE illegally dumped holding tank has more
negative impact on the environment than a 1,000 boats discharging
treated waste from a Type I or II MSD in the same area.

My boat will probably be on the hard until next year
anyway, so it's not an immediate concern, and it won't be on the Great
Lakes
forever, but I'd sure appreciate any tips you can give me on this topic.
If
it's in your book, I can obtain it. ;-)

I'd love it if you bought my book, and it does include chapters that
explain US marine sanitation laws, and lists the most popular Type I and
II MSDs and explains how they work...AND how to eliminate holding tank
odor...but I don't think you need it till your boat goes back into the
water.

Meanwhile, the EPA maintains a list of all the "no discharge"
waters...it's at
http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regul...vsdnozone.html

And if you want more detailed information about the advantages of
onboard treatment, email me...I have a large and growing collection of
articles and research reports. You might also pick up a copy of the next
issue of DIY magazine when it comes out...it'll cost you a lot less than
my book.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Karin Conover-Lewis wrote:

I'll look for the DIY magazine (I think I've seen it at Home Depot and
Menard's)

That's DIY-Boats. Apparently the same company publishes several DIY
magazines for various fields of endeavor.


...and will probably get your book just because. :-D

I'm flattered! Fwiw, signed copies are available from he
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

That EPA list only mentions something like "several areas in Texas". I've
never been able to find specific information for places in Texas... does
anyone have a link that might clear this up? I've had people try to tell me
Clear Lake is a "no discharge" area, including gray water. I know it's BS,
but I'd like to point them to something specific.

--


Keith
__
There is no substitute for good manners, except perhaps fast reflexes.
"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
Karin Conover-Lewis wrote:
I would really like to install an electrasan or other treatment system,
but
as near as I can tell ALL of Lake Michigan and Green Bay have been
declared
"No Discharge Zones" by Wisconsin and Michigan -- probably others of the
Great Lakes as well.

I'm afraid that's true...all the Great Lakes are "no discharge"--in fact
have been so longer than there have been any US marine sanitation laws,
under an agreement with Canada. So till you leave there for coastal
waters, you're stuck with a holding tank.

I seriously dislike the idea of discharging into the
lakes, and understand that it's not legal to do so even though a whole
lot
of folks do so anyway.

That's one of the major problems with "no discharge"...several studies
indicate that more people are dumping holding tanks illegally than are
pumping out. Some have no choice due to lack of pumpout facilities--none
within miles, or they're inaccessible, not working or closed...some just
don't care. Yet those who are determined to shove "no discharge" down
our throats don't seem to realize that the raw sewage and chemical
holding tank products in just ONE illegally dumped holding tank has more
negative impact on the environment than a 1,000 boats discharging
treated waste from a Type I or II MSD in the same area.

My boat will probably be on the hard until next year
anyway, so it's not an immediate concern, and it won't be on the Great
Lakes
forever, but I'd sure appreciate any tips you can give me on this topic.
If
it's in your book, I can obtain it. ;-)

I'd love it if you bought my book, and it does include chapters that
explain US marine sanitation laws, and lists the most popular Type I and
II MSDs and explains how they work...AND how to eliminate holding tank
odor...but I don't think you need it till your boat goes back into the
water.

Meanwhile, the EPA maintains a list of all the "no discharge"
waters...it's at
http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regul...vsdnozone.html

And if you want more detailed information about the advantages of
onboard treatment, email me...I have a large and growing collection of
articles and research reports. You might also pick up a copy of the next
issue of DIY magazine when it comes out...it'll cost you a lot less than
my book.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1