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#11
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cleaning the hull
Hi Roger,
I think that you are extrapolating based on the cost of fixing a 9.14' x 1.5" gash in the bottom of your 32' boat and _then_ re-gelcoating Note that the gash was entirely through the fiberglass, not superficial. The only thing that kept the boat from sinking was the inner hull. I have no idea what the cost of spraying, leveling and buffing the gelcoat would have been by itself, but I doubt it would have been nearly as much. How much do you expect to spend to have the hull sanded, faired, epoxy primed, and then two coats of 2-part epoxy paint professionally applied? I'll bet it doesn't come to much difference by the time you're done, since much of the labor is in the prep. But I've been wrong before ;-) Don W. Roger Long wrote: Gee, extrapolating up for size, that works out to over 1/3 of the purchase price of our used 32 foot sailboat or, about the price of a whole new set of sails, complete with the spinnaker we don't have. Or, I could redo all the rigging, replace the plastic portlights with metal, add a diesel heater and modify the engine cooling system for late (freezing nights) season operation and have something left over for more electronics. In my world at least, that counts as a reason. |
#12
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cleaning the hull
Any reason you couldn't apply Poli Glo in the water at dockside on a
reasonably calm day? Any hints on stripping the wax put on last year? The boat sat outside for six years so there probably isn't much build up aside from the compound and wax job I had done last spring. -- Roger Long |
#13
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cleaning the hull
If Polyglow, etc. was such a wonderful product, why dont the boat
manufacturers/builders apply it to new boats? Please name one. Certainly your rants a have a very strong commerical/profit tinge to them. In article , Mys Terry wrote: On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 20:59:31 GMT, "Roger Long" wrote: "Mys Terry" wrote Total baloney. Mine has not needed "removal" in 8 years. Every spring I wash the boat to get the dust off and wipe on two maintenance coats. My boat always looks like it is wet. Always. Which product are you using? Is it something similar to the Poli Glow that was being discussed here a while back? BTW I suspect this is one of those situations where there is some truth to both points of view depending on standards, situation, and maintenance. I'm probably going to go to a wipe on coating because my boat will probably need paint in five years anyway due to PO caused damage. Looking at it closely, I think it may be a boat that came out of the mold with surface problems and had a new gel coat applied immediately. Buffing is also something I have to hire out. I use poliglow. What Hampel wrote is the standard FUD rant used by boatyard luddites who are losing income as people switch to PoliGlow and similar products, and no longer need their services to compund and wax, which is very labor intensive. I'd be willing to bet that he has no personal experience with the product at all. If he does, then he is one of the folks who didn't follow the clear and easy instructions. The truth in this case is squarely to one side. The simple truth is that poliglow works exactly as advertised if you follow the simple directions. Question anyone who claims to have had a poor experience and carefully, and without exception, they have "improvised" rather than follow the directions. Forget everything you know about compounding and waxing when you use Poliglow. If you apply "wax" knowlege to Poliglow, I agree that you will have problems. I've heard of boatyards charging for untold hours of labor trying to remove poliglow by compounding it. Pretty stupid, since the manufacturer specifically tells you that that WILL NOT WORK. The manufacturer has a companion product that removes poliglow easier than you've ever removed a coat of wax. One other nice advantage of Poliglow is that unlike wax, which pretty much sits on the surface, Poliglow fills in the pores of the gelcoat and really seals it to slow down or stop oxidation. The air trapped under a coat of wax means your gelcoat continues to oxidize and will need compounding again and again. I have recommened Poliglow to a large number of people over the years and have never had a single complaint. I've never had anybody go back to wax, either. Not a single one. |
#14
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cleaning the hull
"Mys Terry" wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:00:29 GMT, Rich Hampel wrote: If Polyglow, etc. was such a wonderful product, why dont the boat manufacturers/builders apply it to new boats? Please name one. Certainly your rants a have a very strong commerical/profit tinge to them. I have absolutely no affiliation with Poly Glow other than the one where I send them money and they send me a product I like very much. What's your angle in trying to spread blatant untruths about the product? Hmmm? I'm active on a Catalina 30 list and quite a few of the participants use Poliglow and have been quite satisfied with the results. I tried it on that basis and have been very happy with it so far. I did the initial work (with the prep solution) with the boat on the hard and have done the maintenance coats with the boat in the water. Much less work than waxing and it looks great. --Alan Gomes |
#15
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cleaning the hull
Dave wrote:
Most of the experts say it isn't cost-effective, particularly with the durability of the 2-part epoxy paints. I don't doubt that what you say is true, however... It seems to me that if the manufacturers could save a bit by switching from gel coat to Imron or Awlgrip they would. Yet the boat manufacturing industry uniformly uses gel coat instead of paint. Professional fiberglass repair places also routinely respray the gel coat and then buff it out. There is little cost difference between the materials, and the preparation is similar. Could it be that the popularity of two-part paints is because they can be applied more easily by the DIY crowd? Regards, Don W. |
#16
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cleaning the hull
Dave wrote:
I think you need to learn a bit about how boats are built. Start your research with the words "mold" and "mold release." Hi Dave, Your second mistake is in thinking that I don't know how boats are built. I'm not going to tell you what your first one was--only that you presume a lot without knowing. Instead of sniping, why don't you share your accumulated wisdom and point out from your point of view why the two-part paints are better and cheaper than gel coat. You could also share your experiences about how you came to hold those views. Or not... (waiting) BTW, have you ever personally painted anything using a two-part paint such as Awlgrip or Imron? Epoxy primer? Regards, Don W. |
#17
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cleaning the hull
Hi Dave,
Earlier I wrote the following: Instead of sniping, why don't you share your accumulated wisdom and point out from your point of view why the two-part paints are better and cheaper than gel coat. You could also share your experiences about how you came to hold those views. Or not... (waiting) BTW, have you ever personally painted anything using a two-part paint such as Awlgrip or Imron? Epoxy primer? You Replied: No need to wait. Go back and read earlier messages in the thread and your question will be answered. I read back through your posts in this thread. The most helpful comment you wrote that I found was: "Most of the experts say it isn't cost effective, particularly with the durability of the 2-part epoxy paints." Very helpful. It suggests that you've read the views of experts and have a religious belief that coincides with theirs--whoever they are. Meanwhile, I suggest that anyone who says the process of applying a boat's initial gelcoat is remotely similar to applying paint to the outside of a hull doesn't know what he's talking about. Dave, you are acting like a usenet troll. You continue to snipe, and not contribute or answer the questions asked. I suggest that you add my name to your killfile so that you won't see my posts in the future. I'm adding your name to right now. plonk Regards, Don W. |
#18
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cleaning the hull
Mys Terry wrote:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:43:52 GMT, Don W wrote: It seems to me that if the manufacturers could save a bit by switching from gel coat to Imron or Awlgrip they would. Yet the boat manufacturing industry uniformly uses gel coat instead of paint. That's not exactly true, Don. If you order a new red or blue C&C 99, they take a standard gelcoated white hull and PAINT it with awlgrip. I would not be at all surprised if that is the way the majority of manufacturers do it. (Metalflake Bass boats aside!) Interesting. I went to their website, and see that Awlgrip is an option for dark hull colors. I'd like to hear their rationale. It is also interesting that they don't offer Awlgrip in the light hull colors. http://www.c-cyachts.com/model/model...b-a61eae41d7de I wonder if they plan to do this for their other models as well. The darker gel coat colors do tend to show oxidation rather badly. Also, are you sure that they are actually painting over a white gelcoat? That seems odd, since scratches would stand out pretty dramatically and they could just as easily apply Awlgrip over a color matched gelcoat. BTW, I'm not putting down the two-part paint systems. I've painted with them and they work well. If sprayed on a well prepped surface, the finish can be spectacular. A lot of people even report good results using DIY methods such as "rolling and tipping". My point was that if you are going to go to all the trouble to prep the hull for painting, and you are set up to spray, why not spray gel coat. The material cost is about the same, and you can spray a much thicker coating that can be wet sanded and buffed for many years to come. The downside is that you may need to wet sand and buff it out after spraying, and the positive side is that you _can_ wet sand and buff it out. For decks, an additional downside to gelcoating may be that you have to redo all of the patterned non-skid. However, I notice that the new Catalinas are using a texture gun to apply the non-skid instead of using a mold pattern. I've been doing a lot of thinking about this lately, because the deck on our Catalina 27 needs to be redone. I will spray it, but the issue is whether to spray gelcoat or paint. I have some concerns about the long-term durability of Awlgrip or any other paint when used as a surface to walk on. |
#19
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cleaning the hull
Coming late to this party, I wonder what is recommended for relatively
new awl-grip. By relatively new, I mean older than 2 years, which is how long Flying Pig has been ashore, at a minimum. That may be significant, as I see that less than 2-year old gelcoat isn't a good candidate for this product. FWIW, the stern and rubrail are both only 1 year old, but the rest of it is probably 3-5 or maybe more old. And, I'm wondering how much product would be needed to cover about 400SF or so... Thanks for any intelligence on the matter. As we approach the time to splash, with Lydia's mom available to help dress her out, this is now on the radar... L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her " I went to the Sea because I wished to live deliberately .. to confront only the essential facts of life .. and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not .. when I came to die discover that I had not lived" - Hendry David Thoreau " |
#20
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cleaning the hull
Skip,
How is the older Awlgrip looking at this point? Skip Gundlach wrote: Coming late to this party, I wonder what is recommended for relatively new awl-grip. By relatively new, I mean older than 2 years, which is how long Flying Pig has been ashore, at a minimum. That may be significant, as I see that less than 2-year old gelcoat isn't a good candidate for this product. FWIW, the stern and rubrail are both only 1 year old, but the rest of it is probably 3-5 or maybe more old. Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her " I went to the Sea because I wished to live deliberately .. to confront only the essential facts of life .. and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not .. when I came to die discover that I had not lived" - Hendry David Thoreau " Actually, the correct quote from "Walden" begins "I went to the woods because..." Although its is fine to go to sea for the same reasons. Don W. |
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