Hi

I have a 26 year old Mirage 27 sailing boat, beautiful condition inside,
however the hull has become dull, looking tired and her age. I would like
to clean and bring back the shine. I have heard both pro's and con's of
silicon polish.

Can anyone advise a good fiberglass cleaner, and resolution to the "dull
hull" syndrome.

I need to apply anti-fouling this year, should I use the cleaner below the
water-line before applying the anti-fouling.

Thanks.

I posted the following respone to a similar question on sailnet.net the
other day to the same question:

First look at the gelcoat with a strong magnifying glass or pocket
microscope (Radio Shack). If you see NO 'alligatoring', then the
gelcoat can be wet sanded and powerbuffed back to the 'original' shine
and brilliance.
1. wash the surface with a STRONG caustic detergent ... from a
janatorial supply, then use oxalic acid (wood bleach -- from a paint
store) to remove old dead wax, iron and tannin stains. Dont MIX
detergent and oxalic !!!! rinse in between the two. Wear gloves when
using oxalic as it quickly absorbs through you skin and can damage your
kidneys.

2. Flat sand the gelcoat with 1000-- 1500 --2000 grit wet and dry
sandpaper using a few drops of dishwashing detergent in a few gallons
of water. Use a rubber sanding block. Sand away until the surface is
flat. Most gelcoat is quite thick .... but stop sanding immediately
when you see the matting layer of fiberglass under layer showing
through .... if you do its time to paint. If not, proceed to 2. The
object is to remove the oxidized outter layer of gelcoat and produce a
FLAT surface ... use the pocket microscope if you have one.

3. Get a high speed autobody power polisher (varibale speed 1000-3000
rpm), 3M foam polishing pads, Coarse Fiberglass rubbing compound, 1000
grit auto body shop compound, 3M finesse it, 3M Perfect polishing
compount, Collinite Fleetwax.

4. Begin with a fresh foam pad (Never mix pads and grits). In a 2ft. by
2 ft. surface apply coarse rubbing compound then do the 2ft. x 2 ft.
square with a foam pad, move to the next 2X2 square until the whole
boat is completed, Then do the same with 1300 grit - whole boat, then
Finesse-it, then Perfect-it. Keep the buffer moving at all times, be
very careful and dont 'burn through' sharp corners. Power buffing can
remove a LOT of gelcoat, so use a 'light touch' .. and keep the buffer
moving so you dont 'overheat' the surface. The speed of the polisher is
what does the work not the pressure. By the time you get to the
Finesse-it the hull should be back to NEW condition shine wise.
Perfect-it with give the deep shine.
You must wax immediately to fill the 'pores' of the gelcoat. Use a
clean bare hand, some water and the paste collinite and rub by hand
until the wax begins to shine, then add about a 10¢ size spread over
the 2X2 and powerbuff. Push the wax INTO the pores of gel ... dont just
smear it across it - this will seal the pores and will retard
oxidation.

99% of the time the above process will restore an old faded hull back
to NEW condition. Its also the same process that is used to powerbuff a
NEW hull when its pulled from its mold. Rewax at about 6 months and
every 12 thereafter as a minimum. Every 2-3 years STRIP the old dead
wax with a caustic detergent, light powerbuff with Perfect-it and
rewax. .... This should keep the boat looking like new for the next 30
years.
You may want to fill in gouges, etc. with new gelcoat before you
powerbuff.

Beware snake oil: acrylic coating 'wipe on' coatings. They look good
for a season or two but ultimately fail and have to be removed (when
they will look like a severe skin disease). The acrylic removal is a
PITA and is ultimately more harmful than the above powerbuffing
method.In article FgD1g.40957$7a.16136@pd7tw1no, Sebastian
wrote:

Hi

I have a 26 year old Mirage 27 sailing boat, beautiful condition inside,
however the hull has become dull, looking tired and her age. I would like
to clean and bring back the shine. I have heard both pro's and con's of
silicon polish.

Can anyone advise a good fiberglass cleaner, and resolution to the "dull
hull" syndrome.

I need to apply anti-fouling this year, should I use the cleaner below the
water-line before applying the anti-fouling.

Thanks.

You are giving excellent advice. I think that the 3M stuff requires
3200rpm. Read the label and follow the instructions and Rich's
prediction will come true for you.

Keith wrote:
The above sounds good, but I'd try just buffing with 3m's brown
compound first, then Finesse-it to see if it brings back the shine you
want. I've brought back some pretty bad hulls that way. I only use
Collinite Fleetwax paste wax as well. Works very well and lasts a long
time. Don't get these compounds at the marine store though... you can
get them for half that price on the web. The place I get mine is:
http://www.autobodydepot.net

Most auto-restorers use Farecla or something similar, applied with a
man-sized electric polisher.
This will bring up the bare gelcoat prior to polishing with whatever takes
your fancy, it's hard work, but worth it. I wouldn't put wet 'n dry of any
grade anywhere near my gelcoat unless a repair had made this necessary. The
auto-shops are bristling with all manner of polishes at half the price of
so-called boat polish, and there are rather more cars than boats, so take
advantage of the research and development they carry out all the time. Ask a
body shop what they use! I use Mir!

DP

Great advice Rich! Well done.


"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
I posted the following respone to a similar question on sailnet.net the
other day to the same question:

First look at the gelcoat with a strong magnifying glass or pocket
microscope (Radio Shack). If you see NO 'alligatoring', then the
gelcoat can be wet sanded and powerbuffed back to the 'original' shine
and brilliance.
1. wash the surface with a STRONG caustic detergent ... from a
janatorial supply, then use oxalic acid (wood bleach -- from a paint
store) to remove old dead wax, iron and tannin stains. Dont MIX
detergent and oxalic !!!! rinse in between the two. Wear gloves when
using oxalic as it quickly absorbs through you skin and can damage your
kidneys.

2. Flat sand the gelcoat with 1000-- 1500 --2000 grit wet and dry
sandpaper using a few drops of dishwashing detergent in a few gallons
of water. Use a rubber sanding block. Sand away until the surface is
flat. Most gelcoat is quite thick .... but stop sanding immediately
when you see the matting layer of fiberglass under layer showing
through .... if you do its time to paint. If not, proceed to 2. The
object is to remove the oxidized outter layer of gelcoat and produce a
FLAT surface ... use the pocket microscope if you have one.

3. Get a high speed autobody power polisher (varibale speed 1000-3000
rpm), 3M foam polishing pads, Coarse Fiberglass rubbing compound, 1000
grit auto body shop compound, 3M finesse it, 3M Perfect polishing
compount, Collinite Fleetwax.

4. Begin with a fresh foam pad (Never mix pads and grits). In a 2ft. by
2 ft. surface apply coarse rubbing compound then do the 2ft. x 2 ft.
square with a foam pad, move to the next 2X2 square until the whole
boat is completed, Then do the same with 1300 grit - whole boat, then
Finesse-it, then Perfect-it. Keep the buffer moving at all times, be
very careful and dont 'burn through' sharp corners. Power buffing can
remove a LOT of gelcoat, so use a 'light touch' .. and keep the buffer
moving so you dont 'overheat' the surface. The speed of the polisher is
what does the work not the pressure. By the time you get to the
Finesse-it the hull should be back to NEW condition shine wise.
Perfect-it with give the deep shine.
You must wax immediately to fill the 'pores' of the gelcoat. Use a
clean bare hand, some water and the paste collinite and rub by hand
until the wax begins to shine, then add about a 10¢ size spread over
the 2X2 and powerbuff. Push the wax INTO the pores of gel ... dont just
smear it across it - this will seal the pores and will retard
oxidation.

99% of the time the above process will restore an old faded hull back
to NEW condition. Its also the same process that is used to powerbuff a
NEW hull when its pulled from its mold. Rewax at about 6 months and
every 12 thereafter as a minimum. Every 2-3 years STRIP the old dead
wax with a caustic detergent, light powerbuff with Perfect-it and
rewax. .... This should keep the boat looking like new for the next 30
years.
You may want to fill in gouges, etc. with new gelcoat before you
powerbuff.

Beware snake oil: acrylic coating 'wipe on' coatings. They look good
for a season or two but ultimately fail and have to be removed (when
they will look like a severe skin disease). The acrylic removal is a
PITA and is ultimately more harmful than the above powerbuffing
method.In article FgD1g.40957$7a.16136@pd7tw1no, Sebastian
wrote:

Hi

I have a 26 year old Mirage 27 sailing boat, beautiful condition inside,
however the hull has become dull, looking tired and her age. I would
like
to clean and bring back the shine. I have heard both pro's and con's of
silicon polish.

Can anyone advise a good fiberglass cleaner, and resolution to the "dull
hull" syndrome.

I need to apply anti-fouling this year, should I use the cleaner below
the
water-line before applying the anti-fouling.

Thanks.

Yeah sure... and the same folks probably slather their brightwork with
'cetol'.

BTW if you want the acrylic overcoats to look as good as finely buffed
gelcoat, flat sand and buff the acrylic as I described above.

The 'problem' with these coatings is that eventually have to be removed
when they oxidize and begin to lose adhesion. Acutally I prefer
urethanacrylic copolymers, especially on teak but with a bit of ferrous
oxide thrown in to retard UV damage. But still, ****nothing**** looks
as good as freshly buffed gelcoat ... thats the way it comes from the
factory and its really easy to keep that way.
When I look at a boat for sale, having an acrylic overcoat for me is a
deal breaker because usually its hiding 'something' and its impossible
to visualize the true condition of the gelcoat.


In article , Dave
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 04:41:05 GMT, Rich Hampel said:

Beware snake oil: acrylic coating 'wipe on' coatings. They look good
for a season or two but ultimately fail and have to be removed (when
they will look like a severe skin disease). The acrylic removal is a
PITA and is ultimately more harmful than the above powerbuffing
method.

Not my experience or the experience of may who've used them.

I disagree somewhat.
Gelcoat needs a flat surface to shine well, If you start with coarse
compound you wond get the truely flat surface hence the shine wont be
fully developed. You usually dont need to use much coarse compound
once you get the surface really flat with 2000 grit as coarse compound
is 'probably' in the range of 800-1000 grit. Wet sanding is a very
FAST way to get a surface Flat .... just like they used to do to get a
lacquer job on a super-expensive automobile FLAT before the final
polish.

In article .com,
Keith wrote:

The above sounds good, but I'd try just buffing with 3m's brown
compound first, then Finesse-it to see if it brings back the shine you
want. I've brought back some pretty bad hulls that way. I only use
Collinite Fleetwax paste wax as well. Works very well and lasts a long
time. Don't get these compounds at the marine store though... you can
get them for half that price on the web. The place I get mine is:
http://www.autobodydepot.net

"Mys Terry" wrote

Total baloney. Mine has not needed "removal" in 8 years. Every
spring I wash the
boat to get the dust off and wipe on two maintenance coats. My boat
always looks
like it is wet. Always.

Which product are you using? Is it something similar to the Poli Glow
that was being discussed here a while back?

BTW I suspect this is one of those situations where there is some
truth to both points of view depending on standards, situation, and
maintenance. I'm probably going to go to a wipe on coating because my
boat will probably need paint in five years anyway due to PO caused
damage. Looking at it closely, I think it may be a boat that came out
of the mold with surface problems and had a new gel coat applied
immediately. Buffing is also something I have to hire out.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:

I'm probably going to go to a wipe on coating because my
boat will probably need paint in five years anyway due to PO caused
damage. Looking at it closely, I think it may be a boat that came out
of the mold with surface problems and had a new gel coat applied
immediately. Buffing is also something I have to hire out.

When the old gel coat starts getting thin, why not just have
new gel coat sprayed on and buffed out? We hit a rock
with our power boat last year and had a 6' x 1" gash
repaired. As part of the repairs, they resprayed the entire
bottom of the boat with gel coat, sanded it smooth, and then
buffed it out. The cost on a 21' boat was not prohibitive
($3700 including the fiberglass repairs).

There may be a very good reason to not re-gelcoat, but it
eludes me at the moment.

Don W.

"Don W" wrote
There may be a very good reason to not re-gelcoat, but it eludes me
at the moment.

Gee, extrapolating up for size, that works out to over 1/3 of the
purchase price of our used 32 foot sailboat or, about the price of a
whole new set of sails, complete with the spinnaker we don't have.
Or, I could redo all the rigging, replace the plastic portlights with
metal, add a diesel heater and modify the engine cooling system for
late (freezing nights) season operation and have something left over
for more electronics.

In my world at least, that counts as a reason.

--

Roger Long