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Cannibal
On Jan 30, 8:33*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:55:22 -0600, CaveLamb wrote: Would a swivel shackle help prevent 3 braid hockle? I assume you mean a swivel at the anchor? *If yes, perhaps. There are a lot of different "hockle" issues. *Like most cruisers with boats over 40 ft or so, we anchor with a chain rode and then use a hook line to provide some shock absorption, and also to take the load off of the windlass and anchor pulpit. *For years we used a hook line made from three strand nylon. *Unfortunately three strand nylon tries to unlay its own twist when you put a strain on it, and that in turn twists the chain. *Some of that twist goes away when you remove the strain but not all of it, probably due to frictional forces. *Over time you end up with a hockled chain, even with a swivel at the anchor. * We've recently switched over to an 8-plait nylon braid for the hook line. * It's difficult to splice but does seem to help with eliminating twisted chain. * The 8-plait braid would also make a superb all nylon rode if properly chafe protected because it does not hockle up when stowed. A well thought out relpy Wayne. My experince with my 17 grt Freya is similar. I tried the bridal and the "shock obsorber? gizmo. Both with the same result. Do you remember those 10 cent balsa rubber band airplanes? (circa 1950s-early 60s) That is what happens with three strand line when put under a load. Ive watched 100 feet of four inch three strand nylon undrer FULL load last winter...... (hang off line) it was attacched to the stern of the boat I was on(180', 930 GRT) and a structure. It parted 10 feet forward of the 6 foot eye splice. It looked just like that rubber band on that 10 cent airplane. WIth each surg it twisted complet rotations seveal times. Bammm! Im sure Joe will chime in here with his crew boat storyies with their 1 1/2 lines. Ive also seen 100+ ton codends being drug up the stern ramp of factory trawlers in the Bering Sea. They used double braid in the 80s but ALL use AMSTEAL now. Its a plait line. That stuff has completely replaced wire roap in the commercial trawl fisheries. Why? Amsteal is rock ****ing rugged, dont rust, no fish-hooks, light and faster to splice. Its a god send to riggers. Now for the swivel controversy...... if you use double braid you now eliminate one more link (the swivel) in your ground tackle which follows my rigging guidlines..... less is better. Also, take a dock walk and look at those boat owners using those swivels. My experince is 30%+ are installed incorrectly. There is a right end and wrong end to attach to the road.... Best wishes....... Bob. |
#2
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Cannibal
Bob wrote:
On Jan 30, 8:33 pm, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:55:22 -0600, CaveLamb wrote: Would a swivel shackle help prevent 3 braid hockle? I assume you mean a swivel at the anchor? If yes, perhaps. There are a lot of different "hockle" issues. Like most cruisers with boats over 40 ft or so, we anchor with a chain rode and then use a hook line to provide some shock absorption, and also to take the load off of the windlass and anchor pulpit. For years we used a hook line made from three strand nylon. Unfortunately three strand nylon tries to unlay its own twist when you put a strain on it, and that in turn twists the chain. Some of that twist goes away when you remove the strain but not all of it, probably due to frictional forces. Over time you end up with a hockled chain, even with a swivel at the anchor. We've recently switched over to an 8-plait nylon braid for the hook line. It's difficult to splice but does seem to help with eliminating twisted chain. The 8-plait braid would also make a superb all nylon rode if properly chafe protected because it does not hockle up when stowed. A well thought out relpy Wayne. My experince with my 17 grt Freya is similar. I tried the bridal and the "shock obsorber? gizmo. Both with the same result. Do you remember those 10 cent balsa rubber band airplanes? (circa 1950s-early 60s) That is what happens with three strand line when put under a load. Ive watched 100 feet of four inch three strand nylon undrer FULL load last winter...... (hang off line) it was attacched to the stern of the boat I was on(180', 930 GRT) and a structure. It parted 10 feet forward of the 6 foot eye splice. It looked just like that rubber band on that 10 cent airplane. WIth each surg it twisted complet rotations seveal times. Bammm! Im sure Joe will chime in here with his crew boat storyies with their 1 1/2 lines. Ive also seen 100+ ton codends being drug up the stern ramp of factory trawlers in the Bering Sea. They used double braid in the 80s but ALL use AMSTEAL now. Its a plait line. That stuff has completely replaced wire roap in the commercial trawl fisheries. Why? Amsteal is rock ****ing rugged, dont rust, no fish-hooks, light and faster to splice. Its a god send to riggers. Now for the swivel controversy...... if you use double braid you now eliminate one more link (the swivel) in your ground tackle which follows my rigging guidlines..... less is better. Also, take a dock walk and look at those boat owners using those swivels. My experince is 30%+ are installed incorrectly. There is a right end and wrong end to attach to the road.... Best wishes....... Bob. I copy you both... It's not a twisting issue - it's a tension thing. I have two 250 foot rodes. One 1/2" double braid, on 1/2" 3 laid. Or maybe I should say I have one 250 foot double braid and a piece of spare 3-lay? And I'll lose the swivel... Thanks guys. Richard -- Richard Lamb email me: web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb |
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