On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 22:43:58 +0000, Justin C
wrote:

In article , Bruce wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 00:43:08 +0000, Justin C
wrote:

Just a small point. Eric Hiscock was never knighted and therefore is not
entitled to the title Sir. He (and his wife) were awarded the MBE, but
that does not bestow a title.

Justin.

It is difficult for outsiders, remember that wogs start at Calais, to
understand the British honors system.

No, that's 'frogs'.

I blush to argue but the saying "The wogs begin at Calais" was
originated by George Wigg, Labour MP for Dudley, in 1949. In a
parliamentary debate concerning the Burmese, Wigg shouted at the Tory
benches, "The Honourable Gentleman and his friends think they are all
'wogs'. Indeed, the Right Honourable Member for Woodford [i.e. Winston
Churchill] thinks that the 'wogs' begin at Calais.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wog


(Particularly one that was said to have originated with someone
recovering a garter (:-)
Cheers,

T'weren't easy for me to work out either, I just started by looking up
EH on Wikipedia, then I had to start with the whole honours thing. Fkin
can of worms that was. Elton John a 'Sir'?! Yet someone like EH, who
actually *did* something.... oh, let's just not go there.

Justin.
Cheers,

Bruce

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 17:35:26 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:12:37 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

A kitty cat is a proper addition to a sailing yacht as they will eliminate
any mouse or rat that might come aboard from who knows where.

there is room for you, and a rat, on the yellow dinghy?

Many ocean-going sailors will confirm the fact that a 27-30 foot sailboat is
the ideal size because of the wavelength and frequency of prevailing winds
generated wave trains. Something about twice that size ends up being a
rougher ride by far and can be overwhelmed and pooped in a following sea
whereas the modest-size vessel just rides up and over like a duck. So, get a
clue. Loose that stupid bigger is better attitude. It only paints you as
ignorant of real world sailing.

Ah Willie, I see you've been reading the Pardey's. If you read Lynn's
earliest stories you world have discovered that the major reason for
building Seraffyn (24'7") was lack of money to build bigger and the
Pardey's first published exercise was a letter to the editor of a
sailing magazine, in response to a published article, in which they
argue that a little boat can be as seaworthy as a big boat.

But your argue that a 27-30 ft. boat is ideal is just a pipe dream. A
VLCC or Box Carrier will be doing 30 K in weather that will keep you
in the harbor. Obviously you (once again) don't know what you are
talking about.

As for being pooped, boat length has nothing to do with it. If the
wave travels faster then the boat you get pooped, if the boat is at
wave speed, or faster, then you don't. But then, you don't have to
read a book to discover that little gem... just go sailing.


snip


Errr, Willie, I'm here in Thailand, and you are still anchored in
Florida? And somehow this indicates that you are the sailorman and I'm
not.....

Admission of failure noted. While I have cruised thousands of miles, I have
never been stranded in some backwater for 30 years like you have. I have met
all my goals and have not been forced into expatriation by virtue of a
dearth of perserverance and/or skills.

How so Backwater? Are you comparing your S. Florida cove with Bali,
Jakarta, Singapore, Port Klang, Pinang, Or any of the Thai ports, and
that just covers a fraction of the places I've anchored in the past
few years.


Something wrong with your logic I'm afraid.

You're afraid, alright. Afraid of going the rest of the way around. LOL!
Keep telling yourself that half of your goal is success. One day in the
distant future you might even come to really believe it.

I'm beginning to wonder about your continued rabbeting on about goals.
What ever are you going on about? My "goals" have been varied over the
years but have never been to sail a boat somewhere. It isn't a "goal"
to somehow be accomplished any more then driving to the convenience
store to get a can of beer. You just get in and go.

You see Willie-boy, you are romanticizing a subject that is just an
everyday occurrence. One of the shortcomings of reading rather then
doing.



Liberal drones? what ever gave you that idea? I certainly would like
to see your evidence to support that statement..


Your brainwashed state and Joe's brainwashed state respecting equating
trying with succeeding is at the very core of liberal drone thinking. It's
the very same thought process that has children playing soccer, softball,
etc. and not keeping score because there can be no losers. Get a clue. In
life there ARE winners and losers and just because one tries, it doesn't
keep one from being a failure and a loser when one does not succeed. You and
Joe are quite pitiful really. Joe brags that he's the better man because he,
at least, tried. Never mind that he tried AND failed miserably. So, by his
reasoning, a miserable failure is better than somebody with goals he tries
and succeeds at attaining even though the goals don't seem quite so lofty?
So you have a failure presuming to be the arbiter of loft? That doesn't
strike you as ludicrous and inane? You can't see that grinding to a halt
half-way around is no success no matter how hard you try to rationalize it,
after the fact?

The more you talk the more it appears that you really know nothing
about sailing. Your talk about winners and losers, failure and
winning, and all the other bumph that you spout is just that and
exposes your utter lack of knowledge about boats.

Boats are not some sort of Everest that has to be conquer. It is just
a form of transportation. Like your bicycle, a motor-car, even shoes.
Go you rabbit on about riding your bike to the 7-11 to get a tube of
toothpaste? Or extol your shoes and how you walk from house to house
reading the water-meters?

Willie-boy you go on about the romance and mystique of boating just
exactly like all the other wannabes. Try talking to someone who has
actually sailed to somewhere and you will be surprised at the lack of
romance there is. Just load the boat, check the mail, and go.


Wilbur Hubbard

Cheers,

Bruce

Why do they charge $100 for that
card ..TIWC? Seems like it's kind of over the top. What does it get
you?


For those who work in the maritime industry/docks etc it is a
requirment to gain access to vessels and other secure areas.. as in
get passed the gate to the dock.


It gets you a fancy ID card that has all of your biometric data,
including fingerprints, encoded on to an internal chip. *All people
involved in public transportation are now required to have one.

as in Transportation Worker Identification Card (TWIC).


And the Coast Guard officers couldn't care less about even looking at the
damned thing.

Not true........ Ive had USCG boardig team request my "mariners
papers" which included my TWIC

They know it's a farce.

That is a huge assumptoin on your part. The USCG people Ive met were
exemplary professionals. Their personal opinions were not evident.
They were there reperseinting the laws of the land.

They respect the Master License they
issue but they reject the redundant TWIC card.


Respect has nothing to do with it. Pure and simple its a job. They ask
for certain documnets and I as a workig mariner present thoes
documents.

Why? Because the stupid
bureaucrats don't give them scanners for the biometric chip. So what good is
it?


That my friend yould have to ask Geo Bush and the republicans. They
were the ones who created Das Homland Security and the TSA. If you
want to blame somebody blame the republicans for stealing more of our
personal feedoms.


LOL!

Wilbur Hubbard

On Jan 30, 9:17*am, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Bob" wrote in message

...

What wilbur is saying is that he has a 25 GRT Master most likely
INLAND. This means that ALL of his credible Sea Service was on vessels
15 GRT. One day over 15 GRT would get Willbur a 50 GRT Master.

Do you have reading comprehension problems. Just what don't you understand
about "NEAR COASTAL"? Near coastal is not for the INLAND WATERWAYS. Ever
heard of a line of demarcation? Western Rivers. The Huey P. Long Bridge.
Sheesh, Bob!

Yes Wilbur In fact Ive walked across the HP Long Bridge.
And yes, I understand the how INLAND-NEAR COAST-OCEANS indorcement are
defined.
My comment was a simple sarcastic criticizim of your license. I
assumed ur 25 ton was INLAND




Its a rather easy test.

Wrong! More people fail than pass at least the first time around.

That is incorrect. The USCG audit and monitor the private
license prep "schools." I belive in 2008 the lower level (200GRT)
master license pass rate was 97%. Those are USCG numbers.

Now how you characterize that number is up to you.............


No DUIs, no parking tickets, no speeding tickets, no moving violations no
traffic violations of ANY sort. Got a ticket on my bicycle a few years ago
but beat it in court - the judge dismissed it.

Ya aint that a bitch. I got a ticket on my bicycle fro bloowing
through a stop sign.


BP is in the normal range, no other maladies, eyesight 20-40. No color
blindness. I'm 5'10" and weigh 165 so there goes your fattie fantasy. I
could kick your sorry butt anytime in a foot race, bike race or swim race..

That is good that you keep healty. That way my taxes will be lower
because you live a heathy life style. Democrats are very fiscally
conservative in that way. Why should my taxes increase to pay for your
medical bills and yuor health **** ups?

And I support increased requirments completely. It time to keep the
drug users and fat asses off the water.

Agreed! But that is already covered in the USCG Masters Licence. No
redundant TWIC card is necessary for those things.


take that up with the republican make work TSA. Yup the TSA was the
biggest make-work program since the CCC.


You sound like you don't have a clue about it. Maybe Joe is right
when he says you're a fake??

Think what you want. For a 1 1/2 years I worked as an AB.


I say make the rules MORE strict!

Freaking Commie!

No we have way too many rules as it is and most are nutured making
necessary rules to govern safety a joke.


so why are you republicans,SLAP

Freaking LIBERAL COMMIE! Take a hike!

Wilbur Hubbard

As for being pooped, boat length has nothing to do with it. If the
wave travels faster then the boat you get pooped, if the boat is at
wave speed, or faster, then you don't. But then, you don't have to
read a book to discover that little gem... just go sailing.

My dear Bruce. I belive the defintion of getting pooped is when water
is shiped on deck. TO have a wave pass the boat is simply that: a wave
going by.

Please forgive me if I misunderstood your post.

Bob

Wilbur Hubbard (wishing I were about forty years younger)


I dont want to waste my time finding your original post. However, the
one I recall that cought my eye was your statment that anchor rode
should be 3 strand nylon.

Here I completly disagree in one aspect. Yes, 3 strand is okay for day
anchors in winds below 20 k how ever in conditions where "extream"
loads are experinced nylon double braid is best. Why? It wont hockle
and part do to the hockle. Yes double braid has less stretch but if
you ballance the correct working load, length, and chain/line ratio it
will counter the reduced stratch. Your ground tackle In a survival
situation should be double braid not 3 strand. And i dont give a ****
what Ocean Navigator or Cruising WOrld mag you quote. Recreational
sailing advice/best practices is driven by marketing stratiges to get
you to buy a product or erronious tradition.

Do a review of the approperate case studies and youll find that rodes
part in three typical places:
1) Chafe point where line gets fair lead through a closed chock on
deck. ( this can be cured)
2) standing part of line due to hockle (this can be cured with double
braid)
3) eye splice/shackle connection to chain. (this can be cured)

This aint briain surgury its jsut plain riggin.

BOb

Bob wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard (wishing I were about forty years younger)


I dont want to waste my time finding your original post. However, the
one I recall that cought my eye was your statment that anchor rode
should be 3 strand nylon.

Here I completly disagree in one aspect. Yes, 3 strand is okay for day
anchors in winds below 20 k how ever in conditions where "extream"
loads are experinced nylon double braid is best. Why? It wont hockle
and part do to the hockle. Yes double braid has less stretch but if
you ballance the correct working load, length, and chain/line ratio it
will counter the reduced stratch. Your ground tackle In a survival
situation should be double braid not 3 strand. And i dont give a ****
what Ocean Navigator or Cruising WOrld mag you quote. Recreational
sailing advice/best practices is driven by marketing stratiges to get
you to buy a product or erronious tradition.

Do a review of the approperate case studies and youll find that rodes
part in three typical places:
1) Chafe point where line gets fair lead through a closed chock on
deck. ( this can be cured)
2) standing part of line due to hockle (this can be cured with double
braid)
3) eye splice/shackle connection to chain. (this can be cured)

This aint briain surgury its jsut plain riggin.

BOb


That's not what the magazine article that he read said though!

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

Bob wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard (wishing I were about forty years younger)


I dont want to waste my time finding your original post. However, the
one I recall that cought my eye was your statment that anchor rode
should be 3 strand nylon.

Here I completly disagree in one aspect. Yes, 3 strand is okay for day
anchors in winds below 20 k how ever in conditions where "extream"
loads are experinced nylon double braid is best. Why? It wont hockle
and part do to the hockle. Yes double braid has less stretch but if
you ballance the correct working load, length, and chain/line ratio it
will counter the reduced stratch. Your ground tackle In a survival
situation should be double braid not 3 strand. And i dont give a ****
what Ocean Navigator or Cruising WOrld mag you quote. Recreational
sailing advice/best practices is driven by marketing stratiges to get
you to buy a product or erronious tradition.

Do a review of the approperate case studies and youll find that rodes
part in three typical places:
1) Chafe point where line gets fair lead through a closed chock on
deck. ( this can be cured)
2) standing part of line due to hockle (this can be cured with double
braid)
3) eye splice/shackle connection to chain. (this can be cured)

This aint briain surgury its jsut plain riggin.

BOb

BOb,

Would a swivel shackle help prevent 3 braid hockle?

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:55:22 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

Would a swivel shackle help prevent 3 braid hockle?

I assume you mean a swivel at the anchor? If yes, perhaps.

There are a lot of different "hockle" issues. Like most cruisers with
boats over 40 ft or so, we anchor with a chain rode and then use a
hook line to provide some shock absorption, and also to take the load
off of the windlass and anchor pulpit. For years we used a hook line
made from three strand nylon. Unfortunately three strand nylon tries
to unlay its own twist when you put a strain on it, and that in turn
twists the chain. Some of that twist goes away when you remove the
strain but not all of it, probably due to frictional forces. Over
time you end up with a hockled chain, even with a swivel at the
anchor. We've recently switched over to an 8-plait nylon braid for
the hook line. It's difficult to splice but does seem to help with
eliminating twisted chain. The 8-plait braid would also make a
superb all nylon rode if properly chafe protected because it does not
hockle up when stowed.

On Jan 30, 8:33*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 21:55:22 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

Would a swivel shackle help prevent 3 braid hockle?

I assume you mean a swivel at the anchor? *If yes, perhaps.

There are a lot of different "hockle" issues. *Like most cruisers with
boats over 40 ft or so, we anchor with a chain rode and then use a
hook line to provide some shock absorption, and also to take the load
off of the windlass and anchor pulpit. *For years we used a hook line
made from three strand nylon. *Unfortunately three strand nylon tries
to unlay its own twist when you put a strain on it, and that in turn
twists the chain. *Some of that twist goes away when you remove the
strain but not all of it, probably due to frictional forces. *Over
time you end up with a hockled chain, even with a swivel at the
anchor. * We've recently switched over to an 8-plait nylon braid for
the hook line. * It's difficult to splice but does seem to help with
eliminating twisted chain. * The 8-plait braid would also make a
superb all nylon rode if properly chafe protected because it does not
hockle up when stowed.



A well thought out relpy Wayne. My experince with my 17 grt Freya is
similar. I tried the bridal and the "shock obsorber? gizmo. Both with
the same result. Do you remember those 10 cent balsa rubber band
airplanes? (circa 1950s-early 60s)

That is what happens with three strand line when put under a load. Ive
watched 100 feet of four inch three strand nylon undrer FULL load
last winter...... (hang off line) it was attacched to the stern of the
boat I was on(180', 930 GRT) and a structure. It parted 10 feet
forward of the 6 foot eye splice. It looked just like that rubber band
on that 10 cent airplane. WIth each surg it twisted complet rotations
seveal times. Bammm! Im sure Joe will chime in here with his crew boat
storyies with their 1 1/2 lines.

Ive also seen 100+ ton codends being drug up the stern ramp of factory
trawlers in the Bering Sea. They used double braid in the 80s but ALL
use AMSTEAL now. Its a plait line. That stuff has completely replaced
wire roap in the commercial trawl fisheries. Why? Amsteal is rock
****ing rugged, dont rust, no fish-hooks, light and faster to splice.
Its a god send to riggers.

Now for the swivel controversy...... if you use double braid you now
eliminate one more link (the swivel) in your ground tackle which
follows my rigging guidlines..... less is better. Also, take a dock
walk and look at those boat owners using those swivels. My experince
is 30%+ are installed incorrectly. There is a right end and wrong end
to attach to the road....

Best wishes.......
Bob.