Up yours, JN,

It's blowing a gale out here in the Northwest. Lost power at the house
at 8:30 AM. Went down to the boat to put tie wraps around the Furler
come home about 1/4 to 10:00, still without power. Now 10:35 and power
back on and I get you **** about sitting in front of the 'net.

I've just gotten into dry cloths.

Predictions of Gusts in the 60's.

The storms are marching across the Pacific like they are the Queens
Guard. Think I have the rigth to Batten Down!

Ole Tom

Doug,

Tris are pretty good at "walking", It is more like "Crabbing". They can
do as well Sideways as turning.

OT

Hey Simple,

Thought you might be interested. This old man was very happy with the
safety lines I installed from the mast to the pointy end.

I could walk out to the head sail, this morning, to tie wrap the sail
for safety this morning. Works great.

I ran two strips of Webbing from the mast to each side of the Bow
Pulpit. I clip each line to the mast base plate when not in use. When I
go forward, I lift the leads from the plate and clip to Spinnaker Ring.
That way I can hook the safety line to the windward line.

This morning, I just used them for balance to go forward to tie the
furled head sail. When I was finished, re-hooked to the plate.

I wish now I would have rigged them years ago. I got a wet ass from the
storm but I didn't have to crawl like a worm on my ass to make it
forward in the blow. Think about them for "Mustard". They are really
worth the effort, if you have to work the pointy end in a Blow

AND; "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!"

Ole Thom

Sounds like a good idea. I even have a spinnaker ring so I
could attach them like you did. How did you attach them?
Did they come with snap shackles on each end? Are they
pretty tight when attached to the spinny ring?

And, what about them flopping around and flapping around
on deck when the wind blows over them? Do they become
a tripping hazard in light conditions when you're not inclined
to use them?

S.Simon


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Hey Simple,

Thought you might be interested. This old man was very happy with the
safety lines I installed from the mast to the pointy end.

I could walk out to the head sail, this morning, to tie wrap the sail
for safety this morning. Works great.

I ran two strips of Webbing from the mast to each side of the Bow
Pulpit. I clip each line to the mast base plate when not in use. When I
go forward, I lift the leads from the plate and clip to Spinnaker Ring.
That way I can hook the safety line to the windward line.

This morning, I just used them for balance to go forward to tie the
furled head sail. When I was finished, re-hooked to the plate.

I wish now I would have rigged them years ago. I got a wet ass from the
storm but I didn't have to crawl like a worm on my ass to make it
forward in the blow. Think about them for "Mustard". They are really
worth the effort, if you have to work the pointy end in a Blow

AND; "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!"

Ole Thom

Simple,

I brought the webbing and clips and stitched them to length. I
originally planned on hooking them to the gunnels while the sails where
flying and just bring them inside when I wanted to go forward. After
using them, while working on the boat in the slip I found it easier to
hook them to the mast plate. They are a loose fit that way but being a
flat strap they really aren't a problem for me. I don't go forward of
the mast very often. When I do it is to hook the tack of the drifter or
the Spinn. and then I want them in place. As I head back to the cockpit
I drop them to the plate.

Neal, I really don't consider them Safety lines, I consider them Balance
Lines. I'm sure they are strong enough for safety line BUT I hope I
never have to find out.

The clips I used were 11/2" bronze. When It is calm and/or I have guest
or crew that Sun themselves on the foredeck, I disconnect at the mast
and send the ends down the fore hatch, to the V-berth. That clears the
Foredeck just about 90%. I don't use clips at the pulpit end. just loops
which I thread the lines thru after wrapping them around the pulpit like
a lasso.

I've had crew use them as Bow lines at the gas dock. They want me to rig
the stern the same way. They don't have to dig out docking lines and
storing them. They say I could use them for dingy slings.

Old Buddy I'll try to get pictures to you but I'm not to sure of my
photo transmit.

OT

We were discussing a different type of "walking" used to make a multi
screwed vessel "walk" sideways, while DIW, longitudinally..... a very
useful maneuver in tights spaces and when docking.

otn



Simple Simon wrote:

Walking and rudder power are intmately related.

Walking is more a natural function of how a propeller works
that has to be counteracted by a rudder to keep it from
having its way.

For example, you are aboard a right-handed single screw
vessel with headway on. The engine is put full astern and
the rudder hard left. The bow will first swing to the left and
the swing to the right as the vessel loses way.

The swing of the bow to the left is a function of rudder control
while the swing to the right as the vessel loses way is caused
by the prop walk overcoming the effects of the rudder because
of the decreased speed and decreased rudder control.

I hope this helps.

S.Simon.

"otnmbrd" wrote in message k.net...


DSK wrote:


In harbors the world over. I mean everywhere, We all know where they put
Multi-Hulls. on the very end slips of finger piers or bouyed mooring.

The Captains Nemesis wrote:
Interesting.
Here the cats tend to be deep into the marinas (other than casuals)
because they have the ability to turn in there own length under power


No doubt that cats under power with wide spaced twin engines are very
maneuverable under power.



Let's face facts; a Multi trying to manouver ( Over even making a simple
turn in tight quarters) is not a pretty thing. Even under power.

Skilled hands make light work under power. Juggling thrust can walk a
cat sideways and maneuver in ways that monos can only dream.


I'd like to see that. Theory suggests that with small props & rudders, prop
walk and kick aren't going to move it sideways much. In practice??

Interesting .... I'd have thought the opposite.
Since "walking" is highly dependent on rudder power and most sailboats
tend to have better than average power in this area and a "cat" doesn't
tend to have a great deal of wetted area and or windage (exceptions
noted), I'd have guess them to be good candidates for "walking".

otn

And the answer is:

It varies a lot with the cat. Some have long keels, others have daggerboards. Some have
steerable drives, some have a single outboard, some have a widely spaced diesels. Some
have little windage, others a lot.

My boat has long keels, low windage on the bow (more aft), and widely space diesels. She
can pivot in place very nicely but has little prop walk. People have told me they could
make it go sideways, but when I've challenged them to try, they've always failed. I often
have to dock on a face, which is actually often tough - I usually rely on getting close
enough to snag a cleat, then springing in the rest of the way. If I have a few hands
around to help I can usually get the boat anywhere I want. The hands don't have to do
much of anything, but I find it difficult to singlehand because the visibility around the
edges is limited.

This morning I had a special challenge - I had to back into a TravelLift the is about 6
inches wider than my beam. The wind started light, but picked up to about 15 knots cross
as I was coming in. The real problem was that one prop had trouble staying open in
foreword - I had to do most of the work with just one engine. This made it difficult to
stay lined up. I felt that I totally turkeyed it, but I was complimented by the Lift-
Meister and dockhand, and no damage was done. I found that the gearing that forces to two
blades to open together had totally sheared off.

Here's a pic taken slightly later:
http://www.sv-loki.com/Img_1616a.jpg


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup at the
deli."




"otnmbrd" wrote in message
k.net...


DSK wrote:

In harbors the world over. I mean everywhere, We all know where they put
Multi-Hulls. on the very end slips of finger piers or bouyed mooring.

The Captains Nemesis wrote:
Interesting.
Here the cats tend to be deep into the marinas (other than casuals)
because they have the ability to turn in there own length under power


No doubt that cats under power with wide spaced twin engines are very
maneuverable under power.


Let's face facts; a Multi trying to manouver ( Over even making a simple
turn in tight quarters) is not a pretty thing. Even under power.

Skilled hands make light work under power. Juggling thrust can walk a
cat sideways and maneuver in ways that monos can only dream.


I'd like to see that. Theory suggests that with small props & rudders, prop
walk and kick aren't going to move it sideways much. In practice??

Interesting .... I'd have thought the opposite.
Since "walking" is highly dependent on rudder power and most sailboats
tend to have better than average power in this area and a "cat" doesn't
tend to have a great deal of wetted area and or windage (exceptions
noted), I'd have guess them to be good candidates for "walking".

otn

Way to go Moron. Another baby doesn't pass muster!

Cheers MC

JN wrote:

You are one very stupid piece of ****. You don't know me or anything about
me. I'm tired of you imbiciles, you can just continue hanging out in front
of your computers and playing with yourselves. You're always on this
newsgroup so you can't possibly ever be doing any boating of any kind, power
or sail.

Thanks for the info.

S.Simon


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Simple,

I brought the webbing and clips and stitched them to length. I
originally planned on hooking them to the gunnels while the sails where
flying and just bring them inside when I wanted to go forward. After
using them, while working on the boat in the slip I found it easier to
hook them to the mast plate. They are a loose fit that way but being a
flat strap they really aren't a problem for me. I don't go forward of
the mast very often. When I do it is to hook the tack of the drifter or
the Spinn. and then I want them in place. As I head back to the cockpit
I drop them to the plate.

Neal, I really don't consider them Safety lines, I consider them Balance
Lines. I'm sure they are strong enough for safety line BUT I hope I
never have to find out.

The clips I used were 11/2" bronze. When It is calm and/or I have guest
or crew that Sun themselves on the foredeck, I disconnect at the mast
and send the ends down the fore hatch, to the V-berth. That clears the
Foredeck just about 90%. I don't use clips at the pulpit end. just loops
which I thread the lines thru after wrapping them around the pulpit like
a lasso.

I've had crew use them as Bow lines at the gas dock. They want me to rig
the stern the same way. They don't have to dig out docking lines and
storing them. They say I could use them for dingy slings.

Old Buddy I'll try to get pictures to you but I'm not to sure of my
photo transmit.

OT

G It varies a lot with all multi screw (except tractor tugs). From the
look at the picture, I would think she'd "walk" fairly well ( I'm
talking about sideways motion, not prop walk).
Just out of curiosity, when you set up to "walk" to stbd, how do you set
your engines and rudders? .... and which part has the problem keeping
up, bow or stern?

otn

Jeff Morris wrote:
And the answer is:

It varies a lot with the cat. Some have long keels, others have daggerboards. Some have
steerable drives, some have a single outboard, some have a widely spaced diesels. Some
have little windage, others a lot.

My boat has long keels, low windage on the bow (more aft), and widely space diesels. She
can pivot in place very nicely but has little prop walk. People have told me they could
make it go sideways, but when I've challenged them to try, they've always failed. I often
have to dock on a face, which is actually often tough - I usually rely on getting close
enough to snag a cleat, then springing in the rest of the way. If I have a few hands
around to help I can usually get the boat anywhere I want. The hands don't have to do
much of anything, but I find it difficult to singlehand because the visibility around the
edges is limited.

This morning I had a special challenge - I had to back into a TravelLift the is about 6
inches wider than my beam. The wind started light, but picked up to about 15 knots cross
as I was coming in. The real problem was that one prop had trouble staying open in
foreword - I had to do most of the work with just one engine. This made it difficult to
stay lined up. I felt that I totally turkeyed it, but I was complimented by the Lift-
Meister and dockhand, and no damage was done. I found that the gearing that forces to two
blades to open together had totally sheared off.

Here's a pic taken slightly later:
http://www.sv-loki.com/Img_1616a.jpg