"JN" wrote in message
.. .
Stupid ****s! I never claimed to be an expert.

Don't let them get you down. We all have to learn somewhere. I learned
how to handle a boat on the water.



And you two are relics,
either living in isolation or accidents waiting to happen. Today's waters
are much to crowded. Today's sailboats are much more advanced, so why not
make use of the fact that we now have auxiliary power.

Don't be ashamed to use your engine. We *all* do it.
I couldn't get in to, or out of my berth without using the engine.


Today's population
is much too lawsuit happy. I happen to own three sailboats. Two are
smaller and my only auxiliary power is a boat paddle because it's required
by law in my state. My 30 footer has the capability to do damage, and
therefore I take all precautions....

..... As do I.


I agree with Bob****, your sailboats are among the majority that never
leave
the dock.

Hmmmmm!



Regards


Donal
--

Oy! You had to ask! It isn't easy to remember with the controls in front of me, but I
guess:

To walk to Port, Rudders to Starboard, Port Engine in Reverse, Starboard Engine Forward.

The works with many twin screw boats, but I think mine has a keel that too long - I wonder
if its too efficient at low speed? Also, although the rudders are large, they are hung on
skegs and set back a bit from the screws, which are folding. I think all these things add
up to minimal "walking."

-jeff



"otnmbrd" wrote in message
nk.net...
G It varies a lot with all multi screw (except tractor tugs). From the
look at the picture, I would think she'd "walk" fairly well ( I'm
talking about sideways motion, not prop walk).
Just out of curiosity, when you set up to "walk" to stbd, how do you set
your engines and rudders? .... and which part has the problem keeping
up, bow or stern?

otn

Jeff Morris wrote:
And the answer is:

It varies a lot with the cat. Some have long keels, others have daggerboards. Some
have
steerable drives, some have a single outboard, some have a widely spaced diesels.
Some
have little windage, others a lot.

My boat has long keels, low windage on the bow (more aft), and widely space diesels.
She
can pivot in place very nicely but has little prop walk. People have told me they
could
make it go sideways, but when I've challenged them to try, they've always failed. I
often
have to dock on a face, which is actually often tough - I usually rely on getting
close
enough to snag a cleat, then springing in the rest of the way. If I have a few hands
around to help I can usually get the boat anywhere I want. The hands don't have to do
much of anything, but I find it difficult to singlehand because the visibility around
the
edges is limited.

This morning I had a special challenge - I had to back into a TravelLift the is about
6
inches wider than my beam. The wind started light, but picked up to about 15 knots
cross
as I was coming in. The real problem was that one prop had trouble staying open in
foreword - I had to do most of the work with just one engine. This made it difficult
to
stay lined up. I felt that I totally turkeyed it, but I was complimented by the Lift-
Meister and dockhand, and no damage was done. I found that the gearing that forces to
two
blades to open together had totally sheared off.

Here's a pic taken slightly later:
http://www.sv-loki.com/Img_1616a.jpg

BINGO!!!!

Make a Hole!! Make a Hole!!! I gotta get this Flounder to the weigh scale
and claim my Prize!!!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!!!

CM




"JN" wrote in message
.. .
| You are one very stupid piece of ****. You don't know me or anything
about
| me. I'm tired of you imbiciles, you can just continue hanging out in
front
| of your computers and playing with yourselves. You're always on this
| newsgroup so you can't possibly ever be doing any boating of any kind,
power
| or sail.
|
|
|

Walk set-up is correct (props control bow, rudders control stern). Don't
think your keel (from what I saw in the picture) is the problem.
Seemingly (but not) unimportant question .... which end lags behind ....
bow or stern? (in your example, hard right rudder, engines clutched,
only,[no throttle] for left twist) BTW, I'm hoping you say bow, lags
behind G.

otn

Jeff Morris wrote:
Oy! You had to ask! It isn't easy to remember with the controls in front of me, but I
guess:

To walk to Port, Rudders to Starboard, Port Engine in Reverse, Starboard Engine Forward.

The works with many twin screw boats, but I think mine has a keel that too long - I wonder
if its too efficient at low speed? Also, although the rudders are large, they are hung on
skegs and set back a bit from the screws, which are folding. I think all these things add
up to minimal "walking."

-jeff



"otnmbrd" wrote in message
nk.net...

G It varies a lot with all multi screw (except tractor tugs). From the
look at the picture, I would think she'd "walk" fairly well ( I'm
talking about sideways motion, not prop walk).
Just out of curiosity, when you set up to "walk" to stbd, how do you set
your engines and rudders? .... and which part has the problem keeping
up, bow or stern?

otn

Jeff Morris wrote:

And the answer is:

It varies a lot with the cat. Some have long keels, others have daggerboards. Some

have

steerable drives, some have a single outboard, some have a widely spaced diesels.

Some

have little windage, others a lot.

My boat has long keels, low windage on the bow (more aft), and widely space diesels.

She

can pivot in place very nicely but has little prop walk. People have told me they

could

make it go sideways, but when I've challenged them to try, they've always failed. I

often

have to dock on a face, which is actually often tough - I usually rely on getting

close

enough to snag a cleat, then springing in the rest of the way. If I have a few hands
around to help I can usually get the boat anywhere I want. The hands don't have to do
much of anything, but I find it difficult to singlehand because the visibility around

the

edges is limited.

This morning I had a special challenge - I had to back into a TravelLift the is about

6

inches wider than my beam. The wind started light, but picked up to about 15 knots

cross

as I was coming in. The real problem was that one prop had trouble staying open in
foreword - I had to do most of the work with just one engine. This made it difficult

to

stay lined up. I felt that I totally turkeyed it, but I was complimented by the Lift-
Meister and dockhand, and no damage was done. I found that the gearing that forces to

two

blades to open together had totally sheared off.

Here's a pic taken slightly later:
http://www.sv-loki.com/Img_1616a.jpg

Dang it! That's twice I forgot to ask .....inboard or outboard turning
props?

otnmbrd wrote:
Walk set-up is correct (props control bow, rudders control stern). Don't
think your keel (from what I saw in the picture) is the problem.
Seemingly (but not) unimportant question .... which end lags behind ....
bow or stern? (in your example, hard right rudder, engines clutched,
only,[no throttle] for left twist) BTW, I'm hoping you say bow, lags
behind G.

otn

Jeff Morris wrote:

Oy! You had to ask! It isn't easy to remember with the controls in
front of me, but I
guess:

To walk to Port, Rudders to Starboard, Port Engine in Reverse,
Starboard Engine Forward.

The works with many twin screw boats, but I think mine has a keel that
too long - I wonder
if its too efficient at low speed? Also, although the rudders are
large, they are hung on
skegs and set back a bit from the screws, which are folding. I think
all these things add
up to minimal "walking."

-jeff



"otnmbrd" wrote in message
nk.net...

G It varies a lot with all multi screw (except tractor tugs). From the
look at the picture, I would think she'd "walk" fairly well ( I'm
talking about sideways motion, not prop walk).
Just out of curiosity, when you set up to "walk" to stbd, how do you set
your engines and rudders? .... and which part has the problem keeping
up, bow or stern?

otn

Jeff Morris wrote:

And the answer is:

It varies a lot with the cat. Some have long keels, others have
daggerboards. Some


have

steerable drives, some have a single outboard, some have a widely
spaced diesels.


Some

have little windage, others a lot.

My boat has long keels, low windage on the bow (more aft), and
widely space diesels.


She

can pivot in place very nicely but has little prop walk. People
have told me they


could

make it go sideways, but when I've challenged them to try, they've
always failed. I


often

have to dock on a face, which is actually often tough - I usually
rely on getting


close

enough to snag a cleat, then springing in the rest of the way. If I
have a few hands
around to help I can usually get the boat anywhere I want. The
hands don't have to do
much of anything, but I find it difficult to singlehand because the
visibility around


the

edges is limited.

This morning I had a special challenge - I had to back into a
TravelLift the is about


6

inches wider than my beam. The wind started light, but picked up
to about 15 knots


cross

as I was coming in. The real problem was that one prop had trouble
staying open in
foreword - I had to do most of the work with just one engine. This
made it difficult


to

stay lined up. I felt that I totally turkeyed it, but I was
complimented by the Lift-
Meister and dockhand, and no damage was done. I found that the
gearing that forces to


two

blades to open together had totally sheared off.

Here's a pic taken slightly later:
http://www.sv-loki.com/Img_1616a.jpg

"DSK" wrote in message

| BTW when discussing maneuvering full-keel boats, bear in mind that some
are more
| maneuverable than others. Yours has a cutaway forefoot and should be
pretty
| handy. Some full keelers are almost as maneuverable as a brick barn.

Naw Doug... under power Overproof sucks. Plain and simple. It walks to
starboard with a vengeance and turns ever so slowly it's impossible to
maneuver tightly in a breeze under power without quick powerful thrusts of
the prop fore & aft. I always use some sail to maneuver her. The boat just
responds better to competent gentle guidance under sail than with an engine.
Cutaway forefoot or not..... it responds like a much larger vessel both
under canvas and power.

I've learned to raise a portion of the jib or main to effect the tight
maneuvers when required. I remember running out of wind when halfway in to a
set of slips.... I just stepped into the rowboat and grabbed the bowline in
my teeth to tow her right into the slip under oars... no muss no fuss. I had
a C note riding on the fact I could place her to the slip without using the
engine.

The auxiliary is fine for easy travel on windless days when I have to
absolutely be somewhere. I try to avoid those occasions.

CM

Here's a pic taken slightly later:
http://www.sv-loki.com/Img_1616a.jpg

Don't you just hate seeing your boat suspended in midair .like that? =
When there's wind? I always breathe a sigh of relief when mine hits the =
water or the trailer in safety.

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

I wouldn't say "never." How about 'rarely crash into each other' =
instead?

I was speaking more of still in the marina rather than on the =
course...there they sometimes crash quite effectively....

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Wow that's a low flat bridge structure! What happens in waves!

Cheers MC

Jeff Morris wrote:

And the answer is:

It varies a lot with the cat. Some have long keels, others have daggerboards. Some have
steerable drives, some have a single outboard, some have a widely spaced diesels. Some
have little windage, others a lot.

My boat has long keels, low windage on the bow (more aft), and widely space diesels. She
can pivot in place very nicely but has little prop walk. People have told me they could
make it go sideways, but when I've challenged them to try, they've always failed. I often
have to dock on a face, which is actually often tough - I usually rely on getting close
enough to snag a cleat, then springing in the rest of the way. If I have a few hands
around to help I can usually get the boat anywhere I want. The hands don't have to do
much of anything, but I find it difficult to singlehand because the visibility around the
edges is limited.

This morning I had a special challenge - I had to back into a TravelLift the is about 6
inches wider than my beam. The wind started light, but picked up to about 15 knots cross
as I was coming in. The real problem was that one prop had trouble staying open in
foreword - I had to do most of the work with just one engine. This made it difficult to
stay lined up. I felt that I totally turkeyed it, but I was complimented by the Lift-
Meister and dockhand, and no damage was done. I found that the gearing that forces to two
blades to open together had totally sheared off.

Here's a pic taken slightly later:
http://www.sv-loki.com/Img_1616a.jpg

Think about them for "Mustard". They are really
worth the effort, if you have to work the pointy end in a Blow

THom..his boat's a 27'...if he feels that unsafe he can just pop up out =
of his forward hatch....

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein