wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:23:34 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:16:10 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:


?? Toyota/Honda/Kia, etc. have the same standards. Where's the beef?

Another Wendy's reference! Chairman Dave must be loving this!

It's from an old political add, but yes, Wendy's also.

Dave loves any mention of Wendy's for obvious reasons.



You brain-dead liberals all manage to have your so-called arguments follow a
pre-ordained, liberal order:

Start out arguing on the basis of your feelings alone ------- When that
fails and logic prevails, as it always does, whine and quickly change the
subject by bringing up some perceived crime of President Bush's --------
When the absurdity and irrelevance of that's pointed out to you, make
prominent mention of "Neocons" and conspiracy -------- From there, be sure
to mention the Tri-lateral commission and secret brotherhoods such as Skull
and Bones------ Then quickly morph into the "illegal" war in Iraq --------
Then bring up "global warming" ------ Then blame that and almost everything
else on "Big Oil" ------- Never forget to mention that Bush and Cheney are
"Oil men" ------- Claim Cheney owns Haliburton ------- Then launch into a
discussion of the "New World Order" -------- Talk about the secret
superhighway being built between Mexico and Canada -------- Reveal the
state secret about the new currency called the "Amero" ------ And, finally,
when you've run out of talking points, "attack the man" with a lame, ad
hominem diatribe.

Wilbur Hubbard

Dave wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:32:54 -0500, said:

I haven't visited those plants in SC, Alabama, etc. where the Japanese
companies are beating the pants off Detroit using non-union labor. Is the
above an accurate description of the workforce in those plants?

[Gratuitous nonsense snipped]

Personally, I think it should be a matter of national pride that we
have the best wages, health care, and other services for our citizens
available anywhere in the world. The United States should always be
MORE in all ways. Unfortunately, anti-American miscreants such as Dave
will always want to tear it down and make it less.

What was your answer to the above question again, Not At All? Was Marty's
description of those downtrodden child laborers in the domestic Toyota
plants accurate?

Did you get somebody else to take the Bar exam for you? Given the
reading comprehension, or rather lack thereof that you continue to
exhibit I don't see how it could be otherwise.

Cheers
Martin

Dave wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:35:04 -0500, Marty said:

What was your answer to the above question again, Not At All? Was Marty's
description of those downtrodden child laborers in the domestic Toyota
plants accurate?
Did you get somebody else to take the Bar exam for you? Given the
reading comprehension, or rather lack thereof that you continue to
exhibit I don't see how it could be otherwise.

Ah, so you do believe that labor in the Japanese companies' U.S. plants are
"12 year olds working six and half days a week, eighty hours for
barely enough compensation to pay for their own food....?" If not, what is
the message you intended to convey in using that phrase?

I should have thought it quite clear, but since you insist on behaving
in such a disingenuous manner I'll endeavor to edify you.


Try reading the whole sentence again:

"Dave, you clearly feel that it would be better for us all if we still
had 12 year olds working six and half days a week, eighty hours for
barely enough compensation to pay for their own food.... "

It is a statement of what I believe to be your sentiments, not a
reflection of current employment practices of Toyota. In fact if you
remembered my earlier post, I specifically said that Toyota pays it's
employees well, but you chose to ignore that and make up some stuff
about how Ford's benefit plan was killing them, while they were selling
cars for less than Toyota, albeit, with limited success.

Cheers
Martin

Dave wrote:
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:33:19 -0500, Marty said:

"Dave, you clearly feel that it would be better for us all if we still
had 12 year olds working six and half days a week, eighty hours for
barely enough compensation to pay for their own food.... "

It is a statement of what I believe to be your sentiments, not a
reflection of current employment practices of Toyota.

In other words, it was intended as a gratuitous insult only remotely related
to the topic under discussion, which was whether the taxpayers should bail
out the auto makers and their UAW workers rather than let the auto makers
file Chapter 11. Got it.


Again, you have a penchant for reading things between the lines that
aren't there. But I will take the liberty of doing the same and assume
from your response that you have no problem with the factual gist of my
statement.

Cheers
Martin

Dave wrote:


In that case, let me set you straight. I do not believe it would be a good
idea if we still had 12 year olds working six and half days a week, eighty
hours. Even if they were generously paid for their work.

Nor do I beat my wife.


Good, on both counts.

For the record, for the second time, I don't think your government, nor
ours should be bailing these companies out, either through low interest
loans or grants. I remember GM getting just such a bail out 20 or so
years ago; it did no good, plants were still closed people lost their
jobs and now they're in even worse shape. None of the Detroit three
have done much to keep up with the times.

At a recent international auto show the Europeans and Japanese rolled
out a bunch of small fuel efficient cars and trucks, (Volkswagen won
some kind of award for a 4 cylinder diesel Jetta); what did Detroit show?


BIG fuel guzzling expensive cars and SUVs, let 'em die I say, but don't
blame labour.

Cheers
Martin

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:16:13 -0500, Marty said:

"Dave, you clearly feel that it would be better for us all if we still
had 12 year olds working six and half days a week, eighty hours for
barely enough compensation to pay for their own food.... "

It is a statement of what I believe to be your sentiments, not a
reflection of current employment practices of Toyota.

In other words, it was intended as a gratuitous insult only remotely
related
to the topic under discussion, which was whether the taxpayers should
bail
out the auto makers and their UAW workers rather than let the auto
makers
file Chapter 11. Got it.


Again, you have a penchant for reading things between the lines that
aren't there. But I will take the liberty of doing the same and assume
from your response that you have no problem with the factual gist of my
statement.

In that case, let me set you straight. I do not believe it would be a good
idea if we still had 12 year olds working six and half days a week,
eighty
hours. Even if they were generously paid for their work.

Nor do I beat my wife.


As far as we know... LOL


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:16:36 -0500, Marty said:

BIG fuel guzzling expensive cars and SUVs, let 'em die I say, but don't
blame labour.

Perhaps we can agree that management was in substantial part culpable for
caving in to labor demands which, in the long run, they would be unable to
meet?

It isn't as if unfunded liabilities was a new concept. In fact
conceptually
the so-called "jobs bank" was very much like the unfunded pensions before
the Studebaker failure. And it wasn't any news that the health benefits
they
were promising exceeded those borne by competitors.


Holy crap! It's a consensus! LOL

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:16:36 -0500, Marty said:

BIG fuel guzzling expensive cars and SUVs, let 'em die I say, but don't
blame labour.

Perhaps we can agree that management was in substantial part culpable for
caving in to labor demands which, in the long run, they would be unable to
meet?

It isn't as if unfunded liabilities was a new concept. In fact conceptually
the so-called "jobs bank" was very much like the unfunded pensions before
the Studebaker failure. And it wasn't any news that the health benefits they
were promising exceeded those borne by competitors.

Perhaps,


The only part I'd take much exception is the health care issue. Toyota
and Honda have been able to provide a very competitive health care
package for their employees, (isn't that pretty much a legal
requirement?); however they have taken perhaps more creative and
aggressive control of that care to allow them to provide it at about 1/3
the cost that the big three incur . Again, this is something management
has screwed up in Detroit. Further, it doesn't explain why they have
the same problems in Canada, the health care issue is *exactly* the same
for every employer, yet we see the same problems.

Would you agree that the design visionaries in Detroit haven't been to
good at keeping up with consumer desires?

Cheers
Martin

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:16:36 -0500, Marty wrote this
crap:

BIG fuel guzzling expensive cars and SUVs, let 'em die I say, but don't
blame labour.

Detroit sells what people buy. SUVs are very popular.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

On 21 Nov 2008 18:51:02 -0600, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:16:13 -0500, Marty said:

"Dave, you clearly feel that it would be better for us all if we still
had 12 year olds working six and half days a week, eighty hours for
barely enough compensation to pay for their own food.... "

It is a statement of what I believe to be your sentiments, not a
reflection of current employment practices of Toyota.

In other words, it was intended as a gratuitous insult only remotely related
to the topic under discussion, which was whether the taxpayers should bail
out the auto makers and their UAW workers rather than let the auto makers
file Chapter 11. Got it.


Again, you have a penchant for reading things between the lines that
aren't there. But I will take the liberty of doing the same and assume
from your response that you have no problem with the factual gist of my
statement.

In that case, let me set you straight. I do not believe it would be a good
idea if we still had 12 year olds working six and half days a week, eighty
hours. Even if they were generously paid for their work.

Nor do I beat my wife.

When did you stop beating your wife?