"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:33:38 -0500, Marty said:

Toyota
and Honda have been able to provide a very competitive health care
package for their employees, (isn't that pretty much a legal
requirement?)

Nope. An employer can provide no health benefits at all if he so chooses.
The system of linking health benefits to employment is an outgrowth of
wage
an price controls of WWII. Most do offer them to be competitive in
hiring.


"Most" - yes... down from 69% to 60%.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...UG8OENLE61.DTL

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:33:38 -0500, Marty said:

Toyota
and Honda have been able to provide a very competitive health care
package for their employees, (isn't that pretty much a legal
requirement?)

Nope. An employer can provide no health benefits at all if he so chooses.
The system of linking health benefits to employment is an outgrowth of wage
an price controls of WWII. Most do offer them to be competitive in hiring.


Ah, so Toyota has no health care plan for its' workers?

Cheers
Martin

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 23:58:25 -0500, Marty said:

Nope. An employer can provide no health benefits at all if he so chooses.
The system of linking health benefits to employment is an outgrowth of wage
an price controls of WWII. Most do offer them to be competitive in hiring.

Ah, so Toyota has no health care plan for its' workers?

What is your basis for that conclusion?


The four letter word "Nope" that opens your previous post.

Cheers
Martin

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:55:15 -0500, Martin Baxter said:

Nope. An employer can provide no health benefits at all if he so
chooses.
The system of linking health benefits to employment is an outgrowth of
wage
an price controls of WWII. Most do offer them to be competitive in
hiring.

Ah, so Toyota has no health care plan for its' workers?

What is your basis for that conclusion?


The four letter word "Nope" that opens your previous post.

Most interesting and quite revealing. It suggests you believe businesses
answer only to government requirements--that market forces such as the
need
to compete with other potential employers in setting wages and benefits,
and
the need to compete with other sellers in product pricing, has no
influence
in those businesses' decisions. That assumption may be true in a command
economy. Maybe that's why command economies fail.


It's one of the answers. Certainly, the "free market" (which isn't free of
course) has a role also. However, left to only the free market, healthcare
costs would go up. This has already happened, so it's not really in dispute.
Private companies have little incentive to lower costs. They're in it for
the shareholders.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:32:25 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

However, left to only the free market, healthcare
costs would go up. This has already happened, so it's not really in
dispute.

Nonsense. A market in which the guvmint throws massive amounts to sellers
via various subsidies is not a free market. In a free market without
massive
guvmint intervention, sellers of medical products and services would have
to
adjust their prices based on what buyers are willing to pay.

Except it's a fact. It's not a buyers' market. People have no choice to pay
or die. This isn't a carwash.

Private companies have little incentive to lower costs. They're in it for
the shareholders.

A very good argument for correcting the error made 65 years ago when we
decided to subsidize employer prepayment of medical expenses.

?? Costs would be even higher. Bush wanted to move everything to the private
sector, even social security in the stock market. That would have been just
great wouldn't it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:05:23 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

People have no choice to pay
or die. This isn't a carwash.

I suppose that if one is in a delicate condition, every sniffle and sore
throat is potentially life-threatening. For most of us that's not the
case.


Dude... are you really that heartless? Do you think a stomach ache can be an
indication of too much food but not a ruptured appenedix? Get real.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

It's one of the answers. Certainly, the "free market" (which isn't free of
course) has a role also. However, left to only the free market, healthcare
costs would go up. This has already happened, so it's not really in
dispute.

Note the faulty liberal logic, a deceptive trick:

If A then B {A = healthcare left to free market, B = prices will go up}

We have B, so then A is true ===FALLACY

If Gaynz let syphillis go to his brain, he will become crazy. Gaynz is
crazy, so he has syphillis. No dispute!




Private companies have little incentive to lower costs. They're in it for
the shareholders.


Look at the cost of computers. The computer industry is a virtually
unregulated free market and over the years the costs have soared.

Healthcare costs have gone up by extraordinary measure! 50 years ago an MRI
costs $0.00. Today it costs about $1500. 1550/0 = infinite! There's the
free market at work!



Private companies have little incentive to lower costs. They're in it for
the shareholders.


Yet the Fed acts to head off deflation - falling prices!

Why can't these evil private companies take it upon themselves to shore up
prices to keep their greedy shareholders fat and happy?

wrote in message
...
On 25 Nov 2008 11:45:01 -0600, Dave wrote:

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:32:25 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

However, left to only the free market, healthcare
costs would go up. This has already happened, so it's not really in
dispute.

Nonsense. A market in which the guvmint throws massive amounts to sellers
via various subsidies is not a free market. In a free market without
massive
guvmint intervention, sellers of medical products and services would have
to
adjust their prices based on what buyers are willing to pay.


Unless, of course, they all get together and collude to jack prices
up, rather than compete against each other. That, of course, could
NEVER happen!


Happens all the time. That's why Unions are exempt from anti-trust laws.

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:32:25 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

However, left to only the free market, healthcare
costs would go up. This has already happened, so it's not really in
dispute.

Nonsense. A market in which the guvmint throws massive amounts to sellers
via various subsidies is not a free market. In a free market without
massive
guvmint intervention, sellers of medical products and services would have
to
adjust their prices based on what buyers are willing to pay.

Except it's a fact. It's not a buyers' market. People have no choice to
pay or die. This isn't a carwash.

People do have a choice to take care of their health, thus lowering the
cost. Obesity, smoking, lack of exercise and drug abuse all contribute
heavily to health care cost.



Private companies have little incentive to lower costs. They're in it for
the shareholders.

A very good argument for correcting the error made 65 years ago when we
decided to subsidize employer prepayment of medical expenses.

?? Costs would be even higher. Bush wanted to move everything to the
private sector, even social security in the stock market. That would have
been just great wouldn't it.

I guess it's better to get healthcare from the same system that runs the
Post Office.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:05:23 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

People have no choice to pay
or die. This isn't a carwash.

I suppose that if one is in a delicate condition, every sniffle and sore
throat is potentially life-threatening. For most of us that's not the
case.


Dude... are you really that heartless? Do you think a stomach ache can be
an indication of too much food but not a ruptured appenedix? Get real.


A ruptured appendix has specific pain in the lower right quadrant. A stomach
ache is central and much higher. Hope this saves you several trips to the
emergency room.