"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:43:35 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

That's what Chapter 11 is for. If they can't be saved, they end up in
Chapter 7, their assets are sold, and the creditors take the proceeds.


And, 5+ million are out of work, out of money, no pension, no healthcare.
Great.

Wrong again, Jon. Thanks to our guvmint, since 1974 the taxpayers are
effectively on the hook for pensions earned to date via the PBGC. As for
the
jobs, healthcare, etc. it's unfortunate that healthcare is tied to jobs,
thanks to perverse tax incentives put in place during WWII. And yes, the
folks who have been getting those high wages, and the payments for not
working might have to find other jobs. And the shareholders who also made
bad bets will be out their money. The taxpayers do not owe them a living.

The more likely scenario, however, is that bloated costs are eliminated,
and
a new buyer or buyers go forward with one or more slimmed down businesses
with fewer employees, new management and a new capital structure capable
of
earning a profit.


There will be the unemployment numbers I said. Are you disputing it? Seems
pretty easy to find out. Do a search.

This is absolutely precious: "it's unfortunate that healthcare is tied to
jobs" So, you really don't give a crap about anyone less fortunate that you?
That's pretty harsh.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:45:10 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

Sell better cars.

Good idea, Jon. They could import some of those cars from abroad, and
people
would buy them.

Oh, wait a minute. Those cars wouldn't be built in UAW plants, so the
car
companies couldn't count them against their CAFE requirements.


?? You asked how they can make money. I answered. Not my fault if you
don't
like the answer.

On the contrary--I like your answer. Now if the Congress critters would
just
make it possible by changing the silly CAFE laws to allow it to happen....


?? Toyota/Honda/Kia, etc. have the same standards. Where's the beef?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:13:22 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

So, you're claiming that there was no negotiation? I didn't realize the
UAW
was in charge of the board of directors of all three. Could you possibly
be
any more disingenuous??

Another straw man. Halloween's over, Jon.

I'm willing to talk about giving you $100. You gonaa go out and spend
the
money now?


So, again... you're claiming the contracts weren't negotiated?

You need to read a bit more carefully. You're simply repeating the same
straw man.

Not sure what you mean by the $100? If you give it to me, yes, I'll spend
it.

Those who read with understanding will have no trouble following what I
meant.


So, as usual, you are unwilling to answer a simple question when cornered.
This isn't very professional and adds nothing to the discussion.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:15:25 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

This is absolutely precious: "it's unfortunate that healthcare is tied to
jobs" So, you really don't give a crap about anyone less fortunate that
you?
That's pretty harsh.

On the contrary. What I don't give a crap about is throwing more and more
money at members of the medical profession and their associated
hangers-on,
as we've been doing for 60 years.


Ah, it's the docs fault! Who exactly are the hangers-on... nurses?? In any
case, you're advocating throwing 5M into the unemployment lines without
healthcare. What a humanitarian!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:16:10 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

On the contrary--I like your answer. Now if the Congress critters would
just
make it possible by changing the silly CAFE laws to allow it to
happen....


?? Toyota/Honda/Kia, etc. have the same standards. Where's the beef?

Case 1: Ford imports a car it bought from Mazda, and that Mazda also sells
under its own name. Ford sells it in the U.S. under the name Portege or
(or
some such thing).

Case2: Ford instead licenses the design from Mazda, has the cars built in
Brazil by Brazilian workers, and imports and sells the cars in the U.S.

Case 3: Ford licenses the design from Mazda and builds that same car in
the
U.S. using UAW workers.

Question: What are the implications for Ford's meeting CAFE standards in
each case?


Answer: The CAFE standards don't change. Therefore, the cars that have good
quality, more so in the case of Ford, sell better, not quite so dependent
upon price.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:43:46 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

Those who read with understanding will have no trouble following what I
meant.


So, as usual, you are unwilling to answer a simple question when cornered.
This isn't very professional and adds nothing to the discussion.

Sorry, Jon. No special ed version for you. You'll have to try to get what
everyone but you gets without a special nursery level explanation.


You sound quite familiar with the special ed version, since you can't answer
a simple question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:47:13 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

Answer: The CAFE standards don't change.

You obviously haven't a clue as to how the CAFE standards work.


Obviously, you don't like the answer.

"Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) is the sales weighted average fuel
economy, expressed in miles per gallon (mpg), of a manufacturer's fleet of
passenger cars or light trucks with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of
8,500 lbs. or less, manufactured for sale in the United States, for any
given model year. Fuel economy is defined as the average mileage traveled by
an automobile per gallon of gasoline (or equivalent amount of other fuel)
consumed as measured in accordance with the testing and evaluation protocol
set forth by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)."

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:26:38 -0500, said:

Most of the money for healthcare is made by drug companies, followed
by insurance companies.

Once again, Dave blames the bottom rungs of the ladder for problems on
the roof.

Typically fuzzy thinking, Not at All. Blaming "companies" or "the
corporations" makes for nice easy propaganda for consumption by the dimmer
bulbs on the tree, but thinking people know better. "Companies" are
collections of people. So tell me, who makes more money on average, a
brain
surgeon, or a researcher or manager employed by a Pharma company?


Dave, I must commend you on the beatings you are delivering. They are
outstanding!

"Charles Momsen" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:26:38 -0500, said:

Most of the money for healthcare is made by drug companies, followed
by insurance companies.

Once again, Dave blames the bottom rungs of the ladder for problems on
the roof.

Typically fuzzy thinking, Not at All. Blaming "companies" or "the
corporations" makes for nice easy propaganda for consumption by the
dimmer
bulbs on the tree, but thinking people know better. "Companies" are
collections of people. So tell me, who makes more money on average, a
brain
surgeon, or a researcher or manager employed by a Pharma company?


Dave, I must commend you on the beatings you are delivering. They are
outstanding!


Yeh, but I'd really like to see what he could do with people who weren't
clueless morons. . .

Wilbur Hubbard

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:05:20 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

You obviously haven't a clue as to how the CAFE standards work.


Obviously, you don't like the answer.

"Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) is the sales weighted average fuel
economy, expressed in miles per gallon (mpg), of a manufacturer's fleet of
passenger cars or light trucks with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)
of
8,500 lbs. or less, manufactured for sale in the United States, for any
given model year. Fuel economy is defined as the average mileage traveled
by
an automobile per gallon of gasoline (or equivalent amount of other fuel)
consumed as measured in accordance with the testing and evaluation
protocol
set forth by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)."

You didn't Google far enough, Jon. Add "two fleet rule" to your search
terms
and repeat your search, and then you might be able to begin to answer my
question. Or at least perhaps fool somebody into thinking you have a clue.


I stand by my answer. So far, you haven't answered my very simple question,
which is typical of your obstructionist behavior.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com