Gas prices .. some good news
 

Don White wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:26:46 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

That may change (and it should), but the point is .... Detroit builds what
people buy.
Right up until they don't.

Detroit made two big mistakes:

1. They thought they could keep pushing profitable big iron forever.

2. They could never figure out how to build a small, high quality,
economical car at a reasonable price. Given the high cost of their
labor content it may have been impossible but they never really tried.

Is there any reason why GM could not have produced something like a
Toyota Corolla or a small pickup truck even if they had to build it
offshore? People have certainly bought plenty of them from Toyota so
we can't claim the demand wasn't there.



Finally...some common sense!


And what would we do with all of the unemployed union auto workers here
in the good old U S of A?

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:51:05 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 22:40:09 -0500, tin cup wrote:

The average wage was around 58,000.00 a year.

That's misleading, benefits add at least another 20,000. That is
pretty good pay for unskiled labor, about 2 or 3 times what most
factory workers get.


I saw a news clip recently of a GM "worker" standing beside a console on
the assembly line, supervising a bunch of robotic arms assembling a car.
His
primary job was to hit the red "Emergency Off" button, if something went
screwy or was called to do so.

His "package" (including benefits) was in excess of $85k/year and upon
retirement could look forward to full, GM financed health coverage along
with his pension.

I don't deny anybody the right to hold a good job with decent pay and
benefits, but it really should be in concert with the person's initiative
to
prepare him/her self for that career. I am sorry, but standing around
watching an automated assembly line put cars together for that kind of pay
and benefits just doesn't do it for me, especially when I see others who
have worked hard to educate and qualify themselves for a trade making far
less.

Oh, please. "Educated geniuses" like Paulson of Goldman-Sachs, who
pulled down +50 million his last year as CEO there, and sold his stock
for $500 million to work for the guv, have managed to totally **** up
this country.
I just love it when auto workers are portrayed like you just did, and
the cars and trucks just get produced by magic.
While worthless ****s like those running this country, and who
supposedly "create" magic wealth but who actually create debt are
heros on the covers of news magazines.
I want to puke whenever I see that idiot Jack Welch.
Listening to anti-American morons like him is a primary reason this
country is going down the tubes.
Not that I disagree that Detroit management has screwed the pooch in
giving the UAW stuff like sub-pay. That's their problem, and I don't
care if they go bankrupt.
Simple inattention to the ledger book is the primary problem of most
businesses, and Detroit's sins are even more venal.
BTW, U.S. Toyota and Honda plants offer similar non-union wages, but
smarter management. And they have little legacy costs.
If Detroit goes bust, the Honda/Toyota workers will likely vote in the
UAW to represent them.
National health care will eliminate most of that legacy cost.
A big chunk of Toyota/Honda sales here are still being imported
from Japanese plants, where they don't suffer health care costs.
Don't know how much that figures in profitability, but the Japs also
engineer in more quality too.
Sorry to be disagreeable, but having spent years as both a production
worker and in an "educated" field making much more money but producing
nothing tangible, I have strong views of their relative values.
There's a reason this country is going downhill, and it sure as hell
isn't being caused by workers who actually produce goods.
Too many chiefs and not enough working Indians is the problem.
But that concept is too complex for the "educated" morons who
are "creating" all that magic money.
Well, here we are, and it's just going to get worse. Trust me.
We need Pat Buchanan running the show. He knows what's up.
If Obama is a real "free-trader globalist" we'll continue the decline.
Bottom line is you can't consume more than you produce.
The peasant Chinamen doing the work for us will own us if we continue
down this path.

--Vic

Disclaimer: My opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them.


Heh. In the future please don't be so hesitant and shy about expressing
your views.
We'll consider them, even though they are wrong. :-)

Eisboch

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...

Boater wrote:


This from a guy whose career highlight was cleaning the heads aboard a
navy ship?


We used to send numb-nuts like you all over the ship looking for
replacements for burned out headlights.


Or a replacement fallopian tube for one of the transmitters.

Eisboch :-)

Gas prices .. some good news
 

Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
Don White wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
...
Come on asshole. There is nothing wrong with EARNING high pay and
being showered with benefits. There is no incentive for union
employees to EARN their keep. They get paid the same *weather* they
do excellent work, mediocre work, or no work. Have you found that
little surprise on the Union web site yet? I wish I could be there
when you discover it.


Weather?? What has the *weather* got to do with it?
Management are the villians here. If you don't think so...go check
out their compensation package for leading their company down the drain.



Hey...it's FloridaJim. He couldn't get a job as a hodcarrier's
apprentice.

You two asses can't get out of each others butts can you. While you are
spell checking, look up villions and hodcarrier's.

It's your job to educate your dombfoch Canadian buddy; not high five him
every time he catches a spelling mistake. WAFA



What's a villion, FloridaJim? Something you learned about while chipping
paint in the navy?

I know what a hod carrier does, which is why I pointed out you didn't
have the skills to be a hod carrier's apprentice. Additionally, it's
manly work. That would exclude a loser like you.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...


No, you didn't. I wasn't dumb enough to get drafted, or, in lieu of that,
join up, so I could kill Asians who were not threatening my country.


Here we go again. I hate re-runs.

Eisboch

Gas prices .. some good news
 

Gas prices .. some good news
 

Canuck57 wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"JR North" wrote in message
...
Gas your pigs up while you can. Not gonna tow Cruis'n Rulz! to the
pump. Gonna just get 5 gal at a time and fill her up at home. Don't
expect the prices will hold till next spring. If you wait, you might
just find it back to $4
JR

Nobody likes a spoilsport.

You're gonna give "O" some ideas of things to raise taxes on in order
to force you to
buy an oversized golf cart which is what he's gonna force Ford, GM and
Chrysler to build if they want a bailout.

Eisboch
Heaven forbid U.S. car makers produce mostly high quality, smaller, fuel
efficient cars that people want to buy and dump most of the oversized,
overpowered, mediocre quality V8's behemoths that get 13 mpg. Or less.

Again, you get it wrong. If the vast majority of people wanted to buy
smaller, fuel efficient cars,
Detroit would have been be turning them out by the millions for years.

That may change (and it should), but the point is .... Detroit builds
what people buy.

Eisboch
Apparently Detroit builds what people don't what to buy.

Actually have a car dealership finance manager in the family. Inside word
is that they have buyers, but credit bounces. Basically you need sufficient
collateral, job or cash with a good rating. Just like 40 years ago. They
are losing 9/10 sales this way.

I guess part of this is that a good part of the debt financed middle class
is bankrupt.

I believe they tried to live beyond their means, at least in the US, by
using the perceived or believed value of their home as a checking
account. Now they are fat in the belly with memories of lavish vacations
and a mountain of debt.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

Boater wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:51:05 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

His "package" (including benefits) was in excess of $85k/year and upon
retirement could look forward to full, GM financed health coverage
along
with his pension.
And, this is really a ****er, now GM wants the US Taxpayer to dig them
out of the health care hole by paying for the ridiculous health care
packages for their retireees.

So now we have GM begging some working stiff who works, pays taxes and
either doesn't have a health package or only Major Medical at an
exhorbitant rate to sponsor some moron who put four screws in a
dashboard for most of his life and was paid $34/hr plus benefits for
doing so and now has a $4 co-pay for everything health care related.

Here's what I think GM should do - pre-pack a Chapter 11 bankruptcy,
get rid of the ridiculous union contracts and start over again with
government backing (not loans) with reasonable labor costs and
competitive products.

That will do more for the American economy than any TARP.


Actually, I screwed the facts up. The guy wasn't making $85K per
year. He was making $85 per hour, including base pay and cost of
benefits. Hmmm... 85 times 40hrs/week times 56 weeks ..... not bad!

As mentioned in a previous post, I agree with the Duck and you. The
solution to the auto industry's problems is Chapter 11 and
reorganization, not a taxpayer financed bailout.


Eisboch


Fifty six weeks, eh? I presume you had a hired bookkeeper.


When you are retired you pretty much don't need a clock or calender. But
you knew that, I'm sure.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:51:05 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

His "package" (including benefits) was in excess of $85k/year and upon
retirement could look forward to full, GM financed health coverage
along
with his pension.
And, this is really a ****er, now GM wants the US Taxpayer to dig them
out of the health care hole by paying for the ridiculous health care
packages for their retireees.

So now we have GM begging some working stiff who works, pays taxes and
either doesn't have a health package or only Major Medical at an
exhorbitant rate to sponsor some moron who put four screws in a
dashboard for most of his life and was paid $34/hr plus benefits for
doing so and now has a $4 co-pay for everything health care related.

Here's what I think GM should do - pre-pack a Chapter 11 bankruptcy,
get rid of the ridiculous union contracts and start over again with
government backing (not loans) with reasonable labor costs and
competitive products.

That will do more for the American economy than any TARP.


Actually, I screwed the facts up. The guy wasn't making $85K per year.
He was making $85 per hour, including base pay and cost of benefits.
Hmmm... 85 times 40hrs/week times 56 weeks ..... not bad!

As mentioned in a previous post, I agree with the Duck and you. The
solution to the auto industry's problems is Chapter 11 and
reorganization, not a taxpayer financed bailout.


Eisboch

Fifty six weeks, eh? I presume you had a hired bookkeeper.


Vacation.

Eisboch

Gas prices .. some good news
 

Boater wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

I am going to keep my F150 thank you. Nice ride and pulls a boat and
has 4x4 for the winter. Try that with a pint sized electric car up a
long hill.


Harry had a F-150 not too long ago and often reported in this NG what
a great truck it was.

That's before he sharpened his political correctness.

Now a US made truck is crap because he owns a Japanese model.


Eisboch


I haven't owned an F150 for nearly 10 years. It was a good truck. The
Toyota truck that replaced it was better. I doubt I ever stated the
US-made truck was "crap." I have heard those sorts of allegations,
however, from SW Tom and I believe from you.

My F-150 is a great truck. Good pulling power but, you need a gasoline
tanker to follow you. I even smashed up the right front back in 04 and
it was mechanically fixed extremely well. Still has the same replacement
tire on the right front.

The biggest problem was scraping off all of the damn union built
stickers on the windows when I first got it home from the dealer.