Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:51:05 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

His "package" (including benefits) was in excess of $85k/year and upon
retirement could look forward to full, GM financed health coverage along
with his pension.

And, this is really a ****er, now GM wants the US Taxpayer to dig them
out of the health care hole by paying for the ridiculous health care
packages for their retireees.

So now we have GM begging some working stiff who works, pays taxes and
either doesn't have a health package or only Major Medical at an
exhorbitant rate to sponsor some moron who put four screws in a
dashboard for most of his life and was paid $34/hr plus benefits for
doing so and now has a $4 co-pay for everything health care related.

Here's what I think GM should do - pre-pack a Chapter 11 bankruptcy,
get rid of the ridiculous union contracts and start over again with
government backing (not loans) with reasonable labor costs and
competitive products.

That will do more for the American economy than any TARP.


Actually, I screwed the facts up. The guy wasn't making $85K per year. He
was making $85 per hour, including base pay and cost of benefits. Hmmm...
85 times 40hrs/week times 56 weeks ..... not bad!

As mentioned in a previous post, I agree with the Duck and you. The
solution to the auto industry's problems is Chapter 11 and reorganization,
not a taxpayer financed bailout.


Eisboch

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Come on asshole. There is nothing wrong with EARNING high pay and being
showered with benefits. There is no incentive for union employees to EARN
their keep. They get paid the same *weather* they do excellent work,
mediocre work, or no work. Have you found that little surprise on the
Union web site yet? I wish I could be there when you discover it.


Weather?? What has the *weather* got to do with it?
Management are the villians here. If you don't think so...go check out
their compensation package for leading their company down the drain.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
I am going to keep my F150 thank you. Nice ride and pulls a boat and
has 4x4 for the winter. Try that with a pint sized electric car up a
long hill.

Harry had a F-150 not too long ago and often reported in this NG what a
great truck it was.

That's before he sharpened his political correctness.

Now a US made truck is crap because he owns a Japanese model.


Eisboch
I haven't owned an F150 for nearly 10 years. It was a good truck. The
Toyota truck that replaced it was better. I doubt I ever stated the
US-made truck was "crap." I have heard those sorts of allegations,
however, from SW Tom and I believe from you.

I think I only called one US truck I have owned as "crap" or a similar word
and it really wasn't the truck .... it was the engine. The '05 F-350 with
the Ford/Navstar 6.0 L diesel was failure prone. I was left stranded 3
times with it within the first 11k miles. "That" was crap.

Boy, time flies when you're having fun, huh? Seems like only yesterday you
were full of compliments for Ford regarding your F-150.

Eisboch

Eisboch



As I said, it was a good truck. But the Toyota was a better truck.
That's why I traded in the Ford for the Tundra.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:26:46 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

That may change (and it should), but the point is .... Detroit builds what
people buy.

Right up until they don't.

Detroit made two big mistakes:

1. They thought they could keep pushing profitable big iron forever.

2. They could never figure out how to build a small, high quality,
economical car at a reasonable price. Given the high cost of their
labor content it may have been impossible but they never really tried.

Is there any reason why GM could not have produced something like a
Toyota Corolla or a small pickup truck even if they had to build it
offshore? People have certainly bought plenty of them from Toyota so
we can't claim the demand wasn't there.



Finally...some common sense!

Gas prices .. some good news
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:12:21 -0500, Boater wrote:


You can be sure no one in the Bush Administration gives a damn about
worker bees. Oh...and I just read somewhere that several of the
financial institutions, banks mostly, getting taxpayer bailout money
have reserved some of it for future bonuses for executives.

Yeah, like 10% of *our* money.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...laries-banking



We're not there yet, and we may not get there in my lifetime, but what
we need in this country is a total restructuring of society that adds
fairness. I'm not talking communism, but I wouldn't mind a bit more
European socialism. More and more this country seems to exist only to
help the wealthy attain more wealth. If that is the direction it is
heading, then it deserves to fail.

If it does fail, and I hope it doesn't, it's time to redefine
capitalism. There is no way a few greedy, incompetent *******s should be
able to take down the world's economy.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

Don White wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
...
Come on asshole. There is nothing wrong with EARNING high pay and being
showered with benefits. There is no incentive for union employees to EARN
their keep. They get paid the same *weather* they do excellent work,
mediocre work, or no work. Have you found that little surprise on the
Union web site yet? I wish I could be there when you discover it.


Weather?? What has the *weather* got to do with it?
Management are the villians here. If you don't think so...go check out
their compensation package for leading their company down the drain.



Hey...it's FloridaJim. He couldn't get a job as a hodcarrier's apprentice.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:12:13 -0500, Jim wrote:


Busting the unions should be a requisite part of any bailout plan.
Otherwise they will be back again in a few years looking for another
handout. It's time we earn from our mistakes and stop repeating them.

What union is looking for a handout? I've heard lots of CEOs whining for
help.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:48:55 -0500, Boater
wrote:

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:41:51 -0500, Boater
wrote:

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:51:05 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

His "package" (including benefits) was in excess of $85k/year and upon
retirement could look forward to full, GM financed health coverage along
with his pension.
And, this is really a ****er, now GM wants the US Taxpayer to dig them
out of the health care hole by paying for the ridiculous health care
packages for their retireees.

So now we have GM begging some working stiff who works, pays taxes and
either doesn't have a health package or only Major Medical at an
exhorbitant rate to sponsor some moron who put four screws in a
dashboard for most of his life and was paid $34/hr plus benefits for
doing so and now has a $4 co-pay for everything health care related.

Here's what I think GM should do - pre-pack a Chapter 11 bankruptcy,
get rid of the ridiculous union contracts and start over again with
government backing (not loans) with reasonable labor costs and
competitive products.

That will do more for the American economy than any TARP.
And perhaps like Japan, put the burden of paying for health care on
society as a whole, and not on the manufacturers, eh? Would you go for
that, too?

Not at all, but let's face it - the health care provisions of the
retirement package are onerous to the health of the corporation.

I'll give you an example. My back operation cost $14,356 in total
which was cheap considering that the main surgeon and assistant were
freebies. That includes room, operating room, drugs, anesthesia,
yada, yada, yada.

My copay for that was $2,300. A UAW retiree, the guy who put four
screws in the afore mentioned dashboard for his career, for that same
operation, which would have included surgeon and assistant fees
totaling about $21,000, would have been $4.

A pre-packaged Chapter1 bankruptcy would allow for restructuring the
health care provisions to something a little more reasonable.


"Restructurings" usually are much harder on the working stiffs than the
management pukes. And why should a retiree on a fixed income have to
fork over $2300 for necessary surgery?

I did - and the answer is because it was necessary. A lot of average
joes and "working stiffs" have to do it. Why does the UAW have an
advantage over everybody else.

I agree that the burden of paying for necessary health care should be
lifted from US corporations, and handled the way it is in other modern
countries.

Oh bull****. Tell me about the Canadian system again - you know the
one where the people who can afford to pay cross the border for their
treatments rather than stay in Canada. My daughter sees Canadian
patients all the time - regular basis - because they have long waits
or in some cases, treatments aren't available in Canada because of
costs and/or waiting in lies to have procedures done.

I'm also a bit wearing of hearing about Joe the Auto Assembly Line
Worker, whose career consisted of putting four screws in a dashboard.
If that is all Joe does, and it is unlikely, then that is the job
management wants done. It isn't his fault. I haven't been in an auto
plant in many years, but when I was last in one, I didn't see any jobs
like that,

Harry - stop with the party line crap. For crying out loud, there was
a Discovery channel program the other day about modern assembly lines
and there was one guy who did four screws into the dash of a Ford
pickup and did it over and over and over and over again. Said it was
pretty boring, but it paid well - $34/hr plus bennies.

Get your head out of the sand for once.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message
...

I am going to keep my F150 thank you. Nice ride and pulls a boat and
has 4x4 for the winter. Try that with a pint sized electric car up a
long hill.


Harry had a F-150 not too long ago and often reported in this NG what a
great truck it was.

That's before he sharpened his political correctness.

Now a US made truck is crap because he owns a Japanese model.


Eisboch

I haven't owned an F150 for nearly 10 years. It was a good truck. The
Toyota truck that replaced it was better. I doubt I ever stated the
US-made truck was "crap." I have heard those sorts of allegations,
however, from SW Tom and I believe from you.


Speaking of F-150s...saw an ad in the local paper saying 2008 base trucks
could be had for a few pennies under $14K CDN.
Man...I brought it up but the wife squashed that right away. She's rather
pay twice as much for a Forester or RAV4.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:12:21 -0500, Boater wrote:


You can be sure no one in the Bush Administration gives a damn about
worker bees. Oh...and I just read somewhere that several of the
financial institutions, banks mostly, getting taxpayer bailout money
have reserved some of it for future bonuses for executives.

Yeah, like 10% of *our* money.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...laries-banking



We're not there yet, and we may not get there in my lifetime, but what
we need in this country is a total restructuring of society that adds
fairness. I'm not talking communism, but I wouldn't mind a bit more
European socialism. More and more this country seems to exist only to
help the wealthy attain more wealth. If that is the direction it is
heading, then it deserves to fail.

If it does fail, and I hope it doesn't, it's time to redefine
capitalism. There is no way a few greedy, incompetent *******s should be
able to take down the world's economy.


Going back to the confiscatory tax rates of the 1950s might help. You
know...something like a tax rate of 90% on *all* income over $500,000.
I'd like to see corporations invest in technology, job training, product
improvement and worker benefits, instead of in overpaying mediocre
management. I wouldn't mind seeing us do away with a number of the
purely speculative stock and money instruments, too.