Gas prices .. some good news
 

Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 13, 8:38 am, Boater wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
I'll give you an example. My back operation cost $14,356 in total
which was cheap considering that the main surgeon and assistant were
freebies. That includes room, operating room, drugs, anesthesia,
yada, yada, yada.
My copay for that was $2,300. A UAW retiree, the guy who put four
screws in the afore mentioned dashboard for his career, for that same
operation, which would have included surgeon and assistant fees
totaling about $21,000, would have been $4.
A pre-packaged Chapter1 bankruptcy would allow for restructuring the
health care provisions to something a little more reasonable.
"Restructurings" usually are much harder on the working stiffs than
the
management pukes. And why should a retiree on a fixed income have
to fork
over $2300 for necessary surgery?
It's called a deductable Harry, something anyone should be prepared
for and
also reduces health care premiums somewhat. I'll bet the overall
savings
in premium payments by having a reasonable deductable more than
covers the
$2,300 over the longer term. In major, long term illnesses, the
deductable
is usually capped on a yearly basis, last time I checked.
One more time: most retirees on fixed incomes cannot afford to lay out
$2300 for necessary surgery. You're a rich retiree. Your perspective is
not relevant to retirees who are trying to decide whether to buy food or
medicine because they cannot afford both.

BS. My Dad is a retired non-union blue collar worker who is living on
a fixed income. He's had two surgeries in the last five years that
have cost him, out of pocket, more than $2300. He could afford it
because he lived within his means and socked away money while he was
working. He knew he'd have to take care of himself, and didn't expect
anyone else to do it for him.

My wife and I are doing the same, with a retirement goal set and we're
well on our way. Obama better not lay a finger on my retirement
accounts.

In this day and age, self sufficiency is looked upon as a social
disease. Notice the glares you get from liberals, if you mention it
What does self sufficiency have to do with ducks in the pond.
The Worker got the job and bargained for his pay. He's surviving.
Evidently he is struggling sufficiently to suit you.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:03:17 GMT, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:24:18 -0500, Jim wrote:

We used to send numb-nuts like you all over the ship looking for
replacements for burned out headlights.

I heard stories of Marines on carrier duty being sent to the parts bin
to get a bucket of prop wash and a couple of yards of flight line.

I don't think I would have fallen for it, but I gotta admit, that
would have been pretty funny.

I used to send new guys to the foc'sle to fetch a lawnmower to mow the
bilges, or to get a bottle of vacuum to recharge the DA tank.
It was make-it-up on the spot. Never too funny though.
More elaborate stuff worked better. Intellectual grab-assing so to
speak. Since I was enlisted, I felt no need to be a gentleman.

--Vic

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
...

Boater wrote:

This from a guy whose career highlight was cleaning the heads aboard a
navy ship?

We used to send numb-nuts like you all over the ship looking for
replacements for burned out headlights.


Or a replacement fallopian tube for one of the transmitters.

Eisboch :-)

Or a bucket of ohms. Ah, the good old days.


Simple gags for simple minds.

The simple minds were the ones looking.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:13:06 -0500, Boater
wrote:

Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:31:21 -0500, Boater
wrote:

No, you didn't. I wasn't dumb enough to get drafted

Damn - you are such an ass sometimes.


Nothing personal, Tom. I'm just unimpressed by our entire involvement in
Vietnam, other than the horror of 55,000 American lives wasted, tens of
thousands of U.S. troops seriously injured, and millions of Asians
killed and maimed. Those losses I find tragic and impressive. The war
was a...what's that term you old soldiers like...cluster****, the
dumbest war we got involved in in the last 100 years, until our recent
one against Iraq. Blame for it goes all the way back to the SEATO treaty.

I didn't have to resist the draft, but I have friends who did. *They*
were right.

Many disagree with that take. Me, for one. Different world then, and
the commies were a threat. Yep, I believe in the dominos.
The guys in Viet Nam stopped them from falling.
Nothing you say will change that.
Most the history denying what I just said was written by those who
avoided serving - it's a way to justify their cowardice.
Of course I may be wrong. We'll never know.
But those who died deserve that interpretation.

--Vic

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:42:23 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

wrote in message
t...

Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to? In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.
This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are beyond
any form of healthy avenues for recovery.
The reasons are varied and there's plenty of blame to pass around,
including the consumer. At this point though, it just doesn't matter.
Assigning blame doesn't fix the problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment
firms, GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they are
now-a-days) to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start again.
That will unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting industrys
but they are currently structured to support what exists now, not as it
should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just
filed to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout money
to cover bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning
out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Damn straight.


And what is your plan for the millions of workers who will lose their
jobs? Oh...I know...let them all die.

I would start by firing every member of an automaker's management team,
eliminating whatever "equity" the shareholders still have, renegotiating
all existing labor and supplier contracts, and hiring innovative
management that can begin producing world-class energy efficient cars
within two years, even if they have to buy the technology until they can
develop their own.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/conten...x?RsrcID=39292

A union bailout not an automaker bailout. Especially this point:
"NLPC says the UAW wants additional taxpayer money to enrich health and
retirement plans it controls. Indeed, UAW President Ron Gettelfinger has
urged Congress to act immediately to provide a separate, additional $25
billion in loans so auto companies can meet their health care obligations to
more than 780,000 retirees and dependents."
What about me when I got laid off because the company management made bad
decisions? I had to pay for my own health care costs. Can I now apply and
get reimbursed for those costs, plus interest?

Gas prices .. some good news
 

Boater wrote:
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:42:23 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

wrote in message
t...

Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to? In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.
This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are
beyond any form of healthy avenues for recovery.
The reasons are varied and there's plenty of blame to pass around,
including the consumer. At this point though, it just doesn't
matter. Assigning blame doesn't fix the problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment
firms, GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they
are now-a-days) to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start
again. That will unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting
industrys but they are currently structured to support what exists
now, not as it should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just
filed to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout
money to cover bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require
cleaning out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Damn straight.


And what is your plan for the millions of workers who will lose their
jobs? Oh...I know...let them all die.

I would start by firing every member of an automaker's management team,
eliminating whatever "equity" the shareholders still have, renegotiating
all existing labor and supplier contracts, and hiring innovative
management that can begin producing world-class energy efficient cars
within two years, even if they have to buy the technology until they can
develop their own.

Screw the investors? I don't think so. Burn all labor contracts.
Fire everybody. Sell the brand an equipment to an automaker who knows
how to do business. Hire back employees that can demonstrate needed
skills and collect the union cards as they enter the work place. Start
fresh and build innovative earth friendly vehicles.

As for the employees that don't get rehired, Americans, except for
Obama, Don't just let our people die. We'll find work for them even if
it means pushing out the illegals.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...


Actually, I screwed the facts up. The guy wasn't making $85K per year.
He was making $85 per hour, including base pay and cost of benefits.
Hmmm... 85 times 40hrs/week times 56 weeks ..... not bad!
snip
Eisboch


Say what? 56 weeks a year?
No wonder your economy is in a shambles. The rest of the civilized world
operates on 52 weeks a year.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

wrote in message
...
On Nov 13, 2:38 am, "Eisboch" wrote:
I don't consider UAW members "slobs", but I agree with his overall
assesment.

I was a bit over the top with that. I don't really blame the workers,
they're just taking advantage of the high-paying jobs available to
them. The UAW is specifically the one to blame here, by forcing the
automakers into paying this kind of money to unskilled workers,
ultimately bringing about the death of the entire American auto
industry.

It's past time to break the unions and come back to reality. They've
outlived their usefulness, and turned into leeches on society as a
whole.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

A couple posts ago you were bragging about how well along you and your wife
were in your retirement plans.
I suppose the unionized force should be happy sitting on a park bench
begging for crumbs to eat and a lump of coal to heat their single room
dwelling.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 16:26:46 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

That may change (and it should), but the point is .... Detroit builds
what
people buy.
Right up until they don't.

Detroit made two big mistakes:

1. They thought they could keep pushing profitable big iron forever.

2. They could never figure out how to build a small, high quality,
economical car at a reasonable price. Given the high cost of their
labor content it may have been impossible but they never really tried.

Is there any reason why GM could not have produced something like a
Toyota Corolla or a small pickup truck even if they had to build it
offshore? People have certainly bought plenty of them from Toyota so
we can't claim the demand wasn't there.



Finally...some common sense!
And what would we do with all of the unemployed union auto workers here in
the good old U S of A?

Severence packages and an acre of Florida land to anyone over 55........
offer re-training to the young.

Gas prices .. some good news
 

tin cup wrote:
Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 13, 8:38 am, Boater wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
I'll give you an example. My back operation cost $14,356 in total
which was cheap considering that the main surgeon and assistant were
freebies. That includes room, operating room, drugs, anesthesia,
yada, yada, yada.
My copay for that was $2,300. A UAW retiree, the guy who put four
screws in the afore mentioned dashboard for his career, for that
same
operation, which would have included surgeon and assistant fees
totaling about $21,000, would have been $4.
A pre-packaged Chapter1 bankruptcy would allow for restructuring the
health care provisions to something a little more reasonable.
"Restructurings" usually are much harder on the working stiffs
than the
management pukes. And why should a retiree on a fixed income have
to fork
over $2300 for necessary surgery?
It's called a deductable Harry, something anyone should be prepared
for and
also reduces health care premiums somewhat. I'll bet the overall
savings
in premium payments by having a reasonable deductable more than
covers the
$2,300 over the longer term. In major, long term illnesses, the
deductable
is usually capped on a yearly basis, last time I checked.
One more time: most retirees on fixed incomes cannot afford to lay out
$2300 for necessary surgery. You're a rich retiree. Your perspective is
not relevant to retirees who are trying to decide whether to buy
food or
medicine because they cannot afford both.

BS. My Dad is a retired non-union blue collar worker who is living on
a fixed income. He's had two surgeries in the last five years that
have cost him, out of pocket, more than $2300. He could afford it
because he lived within his means and socked away money while he was
working. He knew he'd have to take care of himself, and didn't expect
anyone else to do it for him.

My wife and I are doing the same, with a retirement goal set and we're
well on our way. Obama better not lay a finger on my retirement
accounts.

In this day and age, self sufficiency is looked upon as a social
disease. Notice the glares you get from liberals, if you mention it
What does self sufficiency have to do with ducks in the pond.
The Worker got the job and bargained for his pay. He's surviving.
Evidently he is struggling sufficiently to suit you.

I don't have the foggiest Idea what you just said. Are you agreeing with
me or not?