On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:09:58 +0000, Ron M. wrote:

HEYYYYY, it's time to break out the old "Bayliner Observations." Let's see...
(blows off dust, coughs...)

Now, NONE of these represent my personal or subjective opinions. These are
objective, factual, empirical observations I've made over 40-plus years of
boating experience. OK?


I, too cannot say I've ever owned a Bayliner, but also have over 40 yrs boating
experience. MY observation is that, if they are such crap, why are there SO MANY
of them still around after 20-30 years? Around here, any powerboat over 20 years
old is probably a ChrisCraft, Fibreform, Tolly, Campion, or, most probably, a
Bayliner.

Why haven't they sank, broken up, fallen apart or whatever "everyone" seems to
think they do?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:


I, too cannot say I've ever owned a Bayliner, but also have over 40 yrs boating
experience. MY observation is that, if they are such crap, why are there SO MANY
of them still around after 20-30 years? Around here, any powerboat over 20 years
old is probably a ChrisCraft, Fibreform, Tolly, Campion, or, most probably, a
Bayliner.

Why haven't they sank, broken up, fallen apart or whatever "everyone" seems to
think they do?

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36


Sheer numbers made.

I've never owned a Bayliner. They are usually OK, tape stripes instead
of Gel, smaller or lighter fittings, lighter weight upholstery, other
such things on their runabouts. 1970's Glastrons had lots of integrity
problems with wood in the floors & transoms, but around here the
Glastrons far outnumber the Bayliners. On our small lake, there are 6
Glastrons, zero Bayliners. Only one of the Glastrons came from the
local dealer.

Rob

From:

HEYYYYY, it's time to break out the old "Bayliner Observations."
Let's see... (blows off dust, coughs...)

Now, NONE of these represent my personal or subjective opinions. These
are objective, factual, empirical observations I've made over 40-plus
years of boating experience. OK?

1. I've been boating for over 40 years, and know many boat mechanics
personally. Independent mechanics, not dealership mechanics. Guys that
work on every boat made, all day, every day. Without exception, they
say Bayliners are "cheaply made."

2. I remember looking at a 21' Trophy cuddy cabin in a Bayliner
showroom. I pressed the tip of my forefinger against the side, and the
outer layer of fiberglass moved in and out about 1/4 an inch. Try this
with a good boat, like a Mako or Grady or my 1993 Robalo - thump it
with the heel of your hand; it feels like concrete slab. I'm serious:
that's not an exaggeration.

3. BOATING magazine reviewed a Bayliner runabout a few years back.
They described its construction as "flimsy."

4. EVERY time I see some dickhead thumping across the lake with his
fenders bouncing wildly around the hull, he's in a Bayliner. Why is
this? There must be a reason.

5. I live at a large recreational lake (about 30,000 acres), and know
most of the local marina owners and operators, and often take a break
and watch their customers come and go. Usually, when somebody pulls
up to the gas pumps, the gas boys jump up and help them tie off, step
onto the dock, pump their gas, etc. But many, many times I've seen
the guy in a Bayliner (usually the guy in #4 above) pull up, and the
gas boys just sit there talking, like he was invisible.

6. I know many, many major boat dealers, especially along the Texas
coast, who refuse to take Bayliners as tradeins. Interestingly, they
all give the same reasons:
1. We don't want them on our lot. We can't have a bunch of
cheap old Bayliners sitting
there next to these "nice" boats. It just makes the whole
place look cheap.
2. Customers have trouble with them, then blame us for
"selling them a bad boat."
3. They cost too much to get sale-ready. Somebody brings in a
used Bayliner, and you have
to replace just about everything on it.

I also know a number of used boat dealers who will buy just about any
boat made, to sit on their lots for resale: EXCEPT a Bayliner. "We
just can't sell'em," they all say. "Who's gonna walk in here, walk
past all these nice boats and spend eight thousand dollars on some
beat-up, old P.O.S. Bayliner?"

7. When I go down to the Texas coast, I usually launch around the
public docks, where thousands of Trophy-class boats are docked: 18-25
foot center consoles and cuddies. Yet, I will not see ONE SINGLE
TROPHY, even though big Bayliner dealerships are nearby. I asked some
local fishing guides if any of them used Trophys, and they said,
laughing out loud, "No way. When somebody shells out $500 for a
professional fishing trip, they don't want to go out in a Bayliner."

8. Even though it's marketed as a rough-and-tough offshore, bluewater
fishing boat, Sal****er Sportsman described a Bayliner Trophy as
"excellent for sheltered or inshore waters."

Now, I fully expect Skipper to rise from the grave...

Ron M.







All the "facts" from the king of the Bayliner Bashers.

My Bayliner Conquest 3250 is now on its 25th Season. Has not sank, is not
falling apart, is as solid as a rock and runs like a top! Perhaps they made
a better boat back then, I don't know. Its always been cared for and she
just keeps on giving year after year. Thankfully I do get dock hands to
help me when I gas er' up. See for yourself at: www.1800doit.com



"RGrew176" wrote in message
...
From:

HEYYYYY, it's time to break out the old "Bayliner Observations."
Let's see... (blows off dust, coughs...)

Now, NONE of these represent my personal or subjective opinions. These
are objective, factual, empirical observations I've made over 40-plus
years of boating experience. OK?

1. I've been boating for over 40 years, and know many boat mechanics
personally. Independent mechanics, not dealership mechanics. Guys that
work on every boat made, all day, every day. Without exception, they
say Bayliners are "cheaply made."

2. I remember looking at a 21' Trophy cuddy cabin in a Bayliner
showroom. I pressed the tip of my forefinger against the side, and the
outer layer of fiberglass moved in and out about 1/4 an inch. Try this
with a good boat, like a Mako or Grady or my 1993 Robalo - thump it
with the heel of your hand; it feels like concrete slab. I'm serious:
that's not an exaggeration.

3. BOATING magazine reviewed a Bayliner runabout a few years back.
They described its construction as "flimsy."

4. EVERY time I see some dickhead thumping across the lake with his
fenders bouncing wildly around the hull, he's in a Bayliner. Why is
this? There must be a reason.

5. I live at a large recreational lake (about 30,000 acres), and know
most of the local marina owners and operators, and often take a break
and watch their customers come and go. Usually, when somebody pulls
up to the gas pumps, the gas boys jump up and help them tie off, step
onto the dock, pump their gas, etc. But many, many times I've seen
the guy in a Bayliner (usually the guy in #4 above) pull up, and the
gas boys just sit there talking, like he was invisible.

6. I know many, many major boat dealers, especially along the Texas
coast, who refuse to take Bayliners as tradeins. Interestingly, they
all give the same reasons:
1. We don't want them on our lot. We can't have a bunch of
cheap old Bayliners sitting
there next to these "nice" boats. It just makes the whole
place look cheap.
2. Customers have trouble with them, then blame us for
"selling them a bad boat."
3. They cost too much to get sale-ready. Somebody brings in a
used Bayliner, and you have
to replace just about everything on it.

I also know a number of used boat dealers who will buy just about any
boat made, to sit on their lots for resale: EXCEPT a Bayliner. "We
just can't sell'em," they all say. "Who's gonna walk in here, walk
past all these nice boats and spend eight thousand dollars on some
beat-up, old P.O.S. Bayliner?"

7. When I go down to the Texas coast, I usually launch around the
public docks, where thousands of Trophy-class boats are docked: 18-25
foot center consoles and cuddies. Yet, I will not see ONE SINGLE
TROPHY, even though big Bayliner dealerships are nearby. I asked some
local fishing guides if any of them used Trophys, and they said,
laughing out loud, "No way. When somebody shells out $500 for a
professional fishing trip, they don't want to go out in a Bayliner."

8. Even though it's marketed as a rough-and-tough offshore, bluewater
fishing boat, Sal****er Sportsman described a Bayliner Trophy as
"excellent for sheltered or inshore waters."

Now, I fully expect Skipper to rise from the grave...

Ron M.







All the "facts" from the king of the Bayliner Bashers.

"Jamie Plante" wrote in message
...
My Bayliner Conquest 3250 is now on its 25th Season. Has not sank, is not
falling apart, is as solid as a rock and runs like a top! Perhaps they
made
a better boat back then, I don't know. Its always been cared for and she
just keeps on giving year after year. Thankfully I do get dock hands to
help me when I gas er' up. See for yourself at: www.1800doit.com


I checked your website. Here's a clue as to why the boat hasn't fallen
apart:

"This motor yacht has been in fresh water since 1984."

Nobody has said that Bayliner didn't make a decent boat for inland,
freshwater use. I just wouldn't buy one if I were boating offshore in
sal****er.

Nevertheless, you've taken exceptionally good care of your boat. Good luck
with the sale.

I checked your website. Here's a clue as to why the boat hasn't fallen
apart:

"This motor yacht has been in fresh water since 1984."

ROFLAMO.

That's about the silliest bash I've ever heard.

The kindest thing you can do for a boat with a wooden heart, (like an older
Bayliner
and dozens of other brands), is to keep it in salt water.

Salt water retards wood rot. Fresh water promotes it. Keep the rain off a boat
moored in sal****er, (good luck with that here 'bouts), and wood rot is not a
major problem. Back when they built planked commercial boats up this way,
they'd cut bungs into the planks below the waterline, pack them with salt, and
then seal the bung hole. A lot of the old timers still throw
rocksalt into the bilge of a wooden boat.

Furthermore, if you want to see hundreds of older Bayliners "miraculously
surviving" a sal****er experience, come to the Pacific NW. They're everywhere.
In fact, if you see a 25 year old FRP boat up here it's almost always a
Bayliner, a Uniflite, a Tollycraft, a Sea Ray, or a Glas-Ply. Yes, there are
many other brands represented among the older boats, but if you gave me a buck
for every mass-pro boat of that age from the group I listed and I gave you a
buck for every boat *not*, I'd be dollars ahead by the end of the day. :-)

"Sal****er will make a Bayliner fall apart."

yep. probably just dissolve right out from under ya.

Around 6/1/2004 4:02 PM, Gould 0738 wrote:

Furthermore, if you want to see hundreds of older Bayliners "miraculously
surviving" a sal****er experience, come to the Pacific NW. They're everywhere.
In fact, if you see a 25 year old FRP boat up here it's almost always a
Bayliner, a Uniflite, a Tollycraft, a Sea Ray, or a Glas-Ply. Yes, there are
many other brands represented among the older boats, but if you gave me a buck
for every mass-pro boat of that age from the group I listed and I gave you a
buck for every boat *not*, I'd be dollars ahead by the end of the day. :-)

Hey, it took a good 35 years for my Glastron's floor and transom to go,
and that's only because the rain got to it when it was briefly kept
outdoors about 15 years ago. Since I've replaced both with marine ply,
keep it covered, and mostly boat in salt, I expect never to have to
replace them again.


--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I checked your website. Here's a clue as to why the boat hasn't fallen
apart:

"This motor yacht has been in fresh water since 1984."

ROFLAMO.

That's about the silliest bash I've ever heard.

The kindest thing you can do for a boat with a wooden heart, (like an
older
Bayliner
and dozens of other brands), is to keep it in salt water.

Yeah, sure. Sal****er does wonders for aluminum and chromed zinc hardware,
non-tinned wiring, and cheap fabric stitching.

Why do boats kept in fresh water draw such a premium?


Salt water retards wood rot. Fresh water promotes it. Keep the rain off a
boat
moored in sal****er, (good luck with that here 'bouts), and wood rot is
not a
major problem. Back when they built planked commercial boats up this way,
they'd cut bungs into the planks below the waterline, pack them with salt,
and
then seal the bung hole. A lot of the old timers still throw
rocksalt into the bilge of a wooden boat.

You seem to know a lot about bung-holes. Not surprising for a liberal from
the Pacific Northwest. ;-)


Furthermore, if you want to see hundreds of older Bayliners "miraculously
surviving" a sal****er experience, come to the Pacific NW. They're
everywhere.
In fact, if you see a 25 year old FRP boat up here it's almost always a
Bayliner, a Uniflite, a Tollycraft, a Sea Ray, or a Glas-Ply. Yes, there
are
many other brands represented among the older boats, but if you gave me a
buck
for every mass-pro boat of that age from the group I listed and I gave you
a
buck for every boat *not*, I'd be dollars ahead by the end of the day. :-)

As a percentage of boats made vs boats still in use today, I'd put Boston
Whaler at the top of the list over any of the ones you've listed.


"Sal****er will make a Bayliner fall apart."

yep. probably just dissolve right out from under ya.

There's more to a boat than a hull supported by non-marine grade stringers
and a superstructure with plywood bulkheads. You're being intentionally
obtuse here.

There's more to a boat than a hull supported by non-marine grade stringers
and a superstructure with plywood bulkheads. You're being intentionally
obtuse here.

Not at all. I'm countering your statement,
"Bayliners won't hold up in sal****er" with an actual observation that up here
in the NW, where there are more Bayliners than anywhere else and a lot of
sal****er, that does not prove true in real life. You can always restitch a
seat cushion.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
There's more to a boat than a hull supported by non-marine grade
stringers
and a superstructure with plywood bulkheads. You're being intentionally
obtuse here.

Not at all. I'm countering your statement,
"Bayliners won't hold up in sal****er" with an actual observation that up
here
in the NW, where there are more Bayliners than anywhere else and a lot of
sal****er, that does not prove true in real life. You can always restitch
a
seat cushion.

....and replace bow rails and deck hardware with 316 stainless...and replace
plastic through-hulls with bronze...and rewire with tinned copper
wiring...and restitch with doubled up Gore-tex stitching...and replace
rotted bulkhead walls with Starboard or Marine ply...and then you'd have a
Sea-Ray not a Bayliner.