On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 13:39:25 -0500, "John Gaquin"
wrote:
Enough of those who would prohibit a simple Christian prayer at the start of
the school day and remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of
Allegiance in an overwhelmingly Christian nation, all under the guise of
constitutionally required "separation", but enforce involuntary in-school
"familiarization" with the religions of other.

=====================================

When I was 7 or 8 years old I was smart enough to understand
separation of church and state. That was in the 50s. Interesting how
so many people just don't get it for one reason or another. Religion
has no place in government, or vice versa. Seems simple enough to me.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message .

When I was 7 or 8 years old I was smart enough to understand
separation of church and state. .

No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp
the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given
the matter much observation or thought since.

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 21:48:10 -0500, "John Gaquin"
wrote:

No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp
the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given
the matter much observation or thought since.

=========================================

OK. Please explain where I'm remiss.

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message .

When I was 7 or 8 years old I was smart enough to understand
separation of church and state. .

No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp
the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given
the matter much observation or thought since.



Try looking at it from the viewpoint of the original Americans and it might
be easier to understand the problem. This assumes, of course, that you
realize the original Americans were pagans, not Christians.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 03:06:32 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

Try looking at it from the viewpoint of the original Americans and it might
be easier to understand the problem. This assumes, of course, that you
realize the original Americans were pagans, not Christians.

=============================================

The cynical definition of a pagan is someone who believes in a
different imaginary friend. The founding fathers of the constitution
had seen quite enough of state enforced religious practices when they
started writing. Wise men.

No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp
the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given
the matter much observation or thought since.

You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if you do,
one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a freedom
to practice the religion of their choice. Forcing kids to recite a "Christian
prayer" at the beginning of a school day has no place in a school that exists
to serve the interests of all students. Why should devout Jewish families pay
taxes to support public schools where their kids will be compelled, (at a
minimum through peer pressure), to pray to Jesus, or Virgin Mary, and/or a host
of Christian saints? Are Buddhist, Muslim, Wiccan, or Hindu taxpayers less
entitled to respect for their beliefs in the education system than Christian
taxpayers? Should we give the non-Christian taxpayers a discount, if we ask the
kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school day?

Is it the proper role of the public schools to teach the children of atheists
that their parents are "wrong"?

Many of our ancestors came to this country because they found being forced to
worship God in a manner dictated by the numerical majority in a society, rather
than by faith and sincere conscious, unacceptable.

It is just as unacceptable in 21st Century America as it was in 18th Century
Britain.

Did you kid ever come to you and say, "But, Dad, most of the other kids are
doing....(insert stupid thing here)..."?

Your answer then still applies. "Just because a majority does something, that
does not make it right."

You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school
day?
There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they aren't
supported by tax dollars nor should they be.

On 08 Nov 2004 03:29:38 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school
day?
There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they aren't
supported by tax dollars nor should they be.

=========================================

Unfortunately the prevailing view of the so called christian right is
that anyone of a different belief is a pagan at best, and should be
converted if possible that their soul may be saved. It's hard to hold
a reasonable discussion with someone of that belief system, and it's
ironic to me that it fosters the same kind of intolerance that the
hard line Islamic's are known for.

On 08 Nov 2004 03:29:38 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp
the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given
the matter much observation or thought since.

You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if you do,
one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a freedom
to practice the religion of their choice. Forcing kids to recite a "Christian
prayer" at the beginning of a school day has no place in a school that exists
to serve the interests of all students. Why should devout Jewish families pay
taxes to support public schools where their kids will be compelled, (at a
minimum through peer pressure), to pray to Jesus, or Virgin Mary, and/or a host
of Christian saints? Are Buddhist, Muslim, Wiccan, or Hindu taxpayers less
entitled to respect for their beliefs in the education system than Christian
taxpayers? Should we give the non-Christian taxpayers a discount, if we ask the
kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school day?

Is it the proper role of the public schools to teach the children of atheists
that their parents are "wrong"?

Many of our ancestors came to this country because they found being forced to
worship God in a manner dictated by the numerical majority in a society, rather
than by faith and sincere conscious, unacceptable.

It is just as unacceptable in 21st Century America as it was in 18th Century
Britain.

Did you kid ever come to you and say, "But, Dad, most of the other kids are
doing....(insert stupid thing here)..."?

Your answer then still applies. "Just because a majority does something, that
does not make it right."

You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school
day?
There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they aren't
supported by tax dollars nor should they be.

Agreed - even in the boonies where I live, there are Muslim, Jewish,
Catholic, Evangelical Christian and I believe, although I can't
remember the particular sub-faith, a Wiccan deal.

My kids all went to private school for elementary and public high
schools. The reason was that my wife teaches in the system and it's
not a lot of fun to be the daughter/son of a school teacher.

I don't believe we need school prayer to make things better - seems a
little silly to me. I'd much rather start teaching readin', writin'
and 'rithmetic than all the touchy feely stuff, learn through play
crap they do now. Socialization my butt. Sit down, shut up and
learn. :)

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

"Gould 0738" wrote in message

You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if
you do,
one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a
freedom
to practice the religion of their choice.

On reflection, I will acknowledge a misuse of the word 'Christian' in my
original post, wherein I should have stated simply "...Enough of those who
would prohibit a simple prayer at the start of
the school day...".

The Constitution proscribes the suppression of religion with equal zeal.

Well said.

Gould 0738 wrote:

No. When you were 7 or 8 years old in the fifties you were able to grasp
the rudiments of a simplistic explanation. Apparently, you haven't given
the matter much observation or thought since.


You may think you live in an "overwhelmingly Christian nation." Even if you do,
one of the reasons generations of immigrants came to this country was a freedom
to practice the religion of their choice. Forcing kids to recite a "Christian
prayer" at the beginning of a school day has no place in a school that exists
to serve the interests of all students. Why should devout Jewish families pay
taxes to support public schools where their kids will be compelled, (at a
minimum through peer pressure), to pray to Jesus, or Virgin Mary, and/or a host
of Christian saints? Are Buddhist, Muslim, Wiccan, or Hindu taxpayers less
entitled to respect for their beliefs in the education system than Christian
taxpayers? Should we give the non-Christian taxpayers a discount, if we ask the
kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school day?

Is it the proper role of the public schools to teach the children of atheists
that their parents are "wrong"?

Many of our ancestors came to this country because they found being forced to
worship God in a manner dictated by the numerical majority in a society, rather
than by faith and sincere conscious, unacceptable.

It is just as unacceptable in 21st Century America as it was in 18th Century
Britain.

Did you kid ever come to you and say, "But, Dad, most of the other kids are
doing....(insert stupid thing here)..."?

Your answer then still applies. "Just because a majority does something, that
does not make it right."

You want your kids to recite a Christian prayer at the beginning of a school
day?
There are dozens of schools just like that in most communities- they aren't
supported by tax dollars nor should they be.