Troop Talk
Soldiers on Iraq.
by Robert Alt
National Review
July 22, 2004
http://www.nationalreview.com/alt/alt200407220834.asp

TUZ, IRAQ - As I walked into the barracks, Sgt. Kevin Porter, a 23-year-
old trooper in the Ohio National Guard serving south of Kirkuk, Iraq,
called me over. He had just received a package from his family in
Bellaire, Ohio, which included a then-weeks-old copy of his local
newspaper. The op-ed page featured a column by Andy Rooney opining
about the character and morale of servicemen in Iraq. Rooney offered
five questions that he wished a reporter would ask the soldiers, a
group he dubbed "victims" rather than "heroes." Although Sgt. Porter is
not someone who frequently talked politics or current events, Rooney's
article struck a nerve with him and his fellow troopers. He asked if I
would assist him and the others in responding to Rooney's questions.

Some rightly may wonder why ink should be spilt on what is necessarily
a belated response to Rooney, whose banal "did you ever notice"
segments on 60 Minutes have come to epitomize journalistic navel
gazing. It is worth noting that Rooney was not always a curmudgeonly
caricature. During WWII, his combat reporting for Stars and Stripes
earned him the Bronze Star. Because of his admirable service, many
Americans still lend their ears to what he has to say about our
soldiers.

Unfortunately, Mr. Rooney seems to have joined the ranks of journalists
whose political disagreements with the current president and open
disdain for the war in Iraq cloud their already questionable judgment.
In this way, Rooney's tirades about and condescension toward the
soldiers are typical of a sizable segment of today's journalists, who
according to a recent Pew Center survey are as a whole more liberal
than the public for whom they report. And so, after being told for the
past year - by those who are not fighting - how the war and
reconstruction are going and how the troops are faring, it's past time
the troops had their say.

Many of Rooney's questions are skewed in a naked attempt to elicit his
desired response. To the extent that he was not simply trying to score
rhetorical points in his column, this reflects a belief that the
soldiers can be easily led by the nose to tout a particular line. I do
not share this opinion, and therefore I let Rooney's questions stand in
an attempt to show his calculation wrong. I did not color his
questions, but assured they were asked verbatim by requesting that the
servicemen read Rooney's written questions before answering. To the
extent possible, I interviewed the troopers separately, so that they
would not be influenced by another's response, and I made efforts to
ensure that the most "pro-Rooney" responses I found for each question
were included here. (In the era of Dowd, I should also note that any
ellipses are not offered to alter the content, but for the traditional
reasons of conciseness, grammar, and to show pauses.)

Rooney's first question was "Do you think your country did the right
thing sending you into Iraq?" Cpl. Caleb Clark of Cuyahoga Falls
offered an emphatic response: "Absolutely. I think that what we are
doing over here has a direct effect on international terrorism. And I
think the government should continue to send soldiers over here until
the job is done. I feel that we would be cheating the soldiers who went
before us if we didn't finish the job." Sgt. Porter shared the view of
many soldiers who looked at the impact for future generations: "I think
we did the right thing for the simple fact that if we didn't, then our
sons or grandchildren would have to come over here and do the same
thing." Spc. David James of North Royalton offered his usual
candor: "Yeah, I think as a whole, I'm glad we're over here; and me,
I'm glad to be part of that whole.... If we didn't step up, who the
hell would?" Spc. Daniel Richmond of Akron saw the benefits for both
countries: "[T]he country needed our help. And we needed to come over
here for our own safety: to help our country deal with the terrorism.
And to help them set themselves up with a better government, so that
things like terrorism...[don't] happen." For Gulf War veteran Sgt.
Joseph Black of Massillon, the only complaint was that we waited this
long. "Saddam should have been removed a long time ago, either by the
United States or by the surrounding Arab states for the crimes he
committed against his people." As you would expect, however, there was
not unanimity on the question. Spc. Dickens thought "there were other
places that needed attention first" but said, "[N]ow that we are here,
we need to finish the job."

Rooney's second question was: "Are you doing what America set out to do
to make Iraq a democracy, or have we failed so badly that we should
pack up and get out before more of you are killed?" This question drew
a unanimous and emphatic response from every trooper I spoke to. Spc.
Dickens explained, "[w]e're doing exactly what we set out to do." As
for pulling out, he took the prospect quite personally: "We've told the
people that we are here to help. If they pull us out now, they would
make me into a liar." Spc. Richmond recognized a simple fact which too
many armchair analysts in the states overlook: "We are doing what is
necessary to make Iraq a democracy - it takes time." Sgt. Black echoed
this sentiment, saying "[a]nyone who thinks that we could undo 35 years
of brutality with a band-aid is sorely mistaken." Black emphasized the
work being done by his troop - including training the Iraqi National
Guard and digging wells for local villages - as evidence of the good
that is being done on a daily basis by the military in Iraq. Sgt.
Porter pointed out that his troop is "helping the Kurds and the Arabs
to work together" - something I witnessed in a contract which the
platoon helped negotiate between two villages, one Kurdish and one
Arab, which had previous harbored distrust toward each other. And
again, the irrepressible Spc. James offered candor: "Who the hell is
saying we failed?" He conceded, "it's tough over here, but you expect
that. . . . This is a war against terrorism; this is about winning the
peace. That doesn't mean that there isn't going to be any fighting."

Rooney's third question was: "Do the orders you get handed down from
one headquarters to another, all far removed from the fighting, seem
sensible, or do you think our highest command is out of touch with the
reality of your situation?" Cpt. Trampes Crow, a civil-affairs officer
from Alabama, gave a response typical of the troops: "Every soldier
thinks that headquarters is out of touch.... What kind of question is
that? Of course he is going to get the kind of answer he wants." Sgt.
Black agreed: "I think that is just a bogus question and a waste of
ink. I think that every soldier going back to the days of spears and
slingshots thought that their leaders were out of touch.... But with
modern communication, they are probably more in touch." Sgt. Porter
thought that the "highest command has some sense of what's going on,
but they don't know exactly what's going on. But then, we don't know
what's going on in headquarters, and if we did, [the orders] might make
more sense." Spc. Richmond had his doubts, suggesting that "a lot of
the commands they give us are out of touch with reality, even if they
are for our safety." And 1st Lt. Barry Naum of Chardon, Ohio, offered
some historical perspective: "[The orders] seem more sensible than if
someone told me to get on a boat and charge on a beach filled with
German machine guns. When have orders ever 'made sense' to a soldier?"

Mr. Rooney's fourth question descended into rhetorical absurdity: If
you could have a medal or a trip home, which would you take? Not
surprisingly, all of the guys said they would prefer to be at home,
something Spc. James expressed poignantly in saying, "[g]etting to see
your family is better than any medal out there." But Cpt. Crow got to
the larger issue, and addressed what seemed to be the motivation behind
Rooney's simplistic question: "Who wouldn't want a trip home? If he is
getting at the bigger question of whether we should be here or whether
we should go home, then we need to stay here to finish the job." Sgt.
Porter said: "Who doesn't want to come home? But it's not like you
hear 'We want to go home! We want to go home.'"

5. "Are you encouraged by all the talk back home about how brave you
are and how everyone supports you?" A lot of the guys had problems with
the use of terms like brave or hero. Sgt. Porter's response is
representative: "Encouraged, yes. It's good to hear that people are
remembering you. But brave isn't really a term we use. It's just doing
your job." Sgt. Black said: "Absolutely, I'm encouraged by the words of
support back home. Am I brave? No. I'm just a guy; I'm just a soldier.
But I'm very happy to have the support of my nation. I was blessed to
have the support of the nation in the two wars that I have been in."
Spc. James explained how much the support means: "Oh yeah, it's a big
motivator. Puts a smile on my face. You got kids from school writing
you letters, and you've got family and friends. It's a big help.... A
lot of people, they look up to you. I'm sure when I get home and I put
on that uniform.... it's truly an honor to wear the uniform. You get
treated better when you wear the uniform." Finally, Lt. Naum
opined: "Yeah. It's more encouraging than what the press is saying....
It's more encouraging than him telling me that I'm a victim. I've never
been a victim."

Lt. Naum was referring to Mr. Rooney's assertion later in the article
that the National Guard members are predominantly serving for the
money, and didn't think they would be called up. Rooney says they are
therefore victims, not heroes. Sgt. Porter protested, "We're not
victims. We signed up for this. Many of us re-enlisted." Addressing the
idea that National Guard members didn't know what they were getting
into, Lt. Naum said the vast majority of the soldiers who are E-4 and
below enlisted after 9/11 - after we were at war, and thus with the
knowledge that they were likely to be called up. Sgt. Black explained
that many of the men not only volunteered once to join the National
Guard, but volunteered a second time to come to Iraq. Indeed, a number
of the men in this very platoon either transferred into the platoon to
serve in Iraq or specifically volunteered to be deployed.

I wish Rooney's patronizing column was an isolated occurrence, but his
style of imputing negative morale and treating the troops as simpletons
who don't know what they're doing is reflective of the current mode of
journalism. Because quasi-journalists like Rooney did not agree with
the war and believed it was not justified to their standards, they
extrapolate that the men involved in it must not have a sense of
purpose. But as the soldiers' responses to these questions demonstrate,
Rooney and his colleagues are sorely mistaken.

Z-Z-Z-Z-Z--Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-z-z-z-z-z-z--z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z


CM

"Anonymous Sender" wrote in message
acolo.com...
| Troop Talk
| Soldiers on Iraq.
| by Robert Alt
| National Review
| July 22, 2004
| http://www.nationalreview.com/alt/alt200407220834.asp
|
| TUZ, IRAQ - As I walked into the barracks, Sgt. Kevin Porter, a 23-year-
| old trooper in the Ohio National Guard serving south of Kirkuk, Iraq,
| called me over. He had just received a package from his family in
| Bellaire, Ohio, which included a then-weeks-old copy of his local
| newspaper. The op-ed page featured a column by Andy Rooney opining
| about the character and morale of servicemen in Iraq. Rooney offered
| five questions that he wished a reporter would ask the soldiers, a
| group he dubbed "victims" rather than "heroes." Although Sgt. Porter is
| not someone who frequently talked politics or current events, Rooney's
| article struck a nerve with him and his fellow troopers. He asked if I
| would assist him and the others in responding to Rooney's questions.
|
| Some rightly may wonder why ink should be spilt on what is necessarily
| a belated response to Rooney, whose banal "did you ever notice"
| segments on 60 Minutes have come to epitomize journalistic navel
| gazing. It is worth noting that Rooney was not always a curmudgeonly
| caricature. During WWII, his combat reporting for Stars and Stripes
| earned him the Bronze Star. Because of his admirable service, many
| Americans still lend their ears to what he has to say about our
| soldiers.
|
| Unfortunately, Mr. Rooney seems to have joined the ranks of journalists
| whose political disagreements with the current president and open
| disdain for the war in Iraq cloud their already questionable judgment.
| In this way, Rooney's tirades about and condescension toward the
| soldiers are typical of a sizable segment of today's journalists, who
| according to a recent Pew Center survey are as a whole more liberal
| than the public for whom they report. And so, after being told for the
| past year - by those who are not fighting - how the war and
| reconstruction are going and how the troops are faring, it's past time
| the troops had their say.
|
| Many of Rooney's questions are skewed in a naked attempt to elicit his
| desired response. To the extent that he was not simply trying to score
| rhetorical points in his column, this reflects a belief that the
| soldiers can be easily led by the nose to tout a particular line. I do
| not share this opinion, and therefore I let Rooney's questions stand in
| an attempt to show his calculation wrong. I did not color his
| questions, but assured they were asked verbatim by requesting that the
| servicemen read Rooney's written questions before answering. To the
| extent possible, I interviewed the troopers separately, so that they
| would not be influenced by another's response, and I made efforts to
| ensure that the most "pro-Rooney" responses I found for each question
| were included here. (In the era of Dowd, I should also note that any
| ellipses are not offered to alter the content, but for the traditional
| reasons of conciseness, grammar, and to show pauses.)
|
| Rooney's first question was "Do you think your country did the right
| thing sending you into Iraq?" Cpl. Caleb Clark of Cuyahoga Falls
| offered an emphatic response: "Absolutely. I think that what we are
| doing over here has a direct effect on international terrorism. And I
| think the government should continue to send soldiers over here until
| the job is done. I feel that we would be cheating the soldiers who went
| before us if we didn't finish the job." Sgt. Porter shared the view of
| many soldiers who looked at the impact for future generations: "I think
| we did the right thing for the simple fact that if we didn't, then our
| sons or grandchildren would have to come over here and do the same
| thing." Spc. David James of North Royalton offered his usual
| candor: "Yeah, I think as a whole, I'm glad we're over here; and me,
| I'm glad to be part of that whole.... If we didn't step up, who the
| hell would?" Spc. Daniel Richmond of Akron saw the benefits for both
| countries: "[T]he country needed our help. And we needed to come over
| here for our own safety: to help our country deal with the terrorism.
| And to help them set themselves up with a better government, so that
| things like terrorism...[don't] happen." For Gulf War veteran Sgt.
| Joseph Black of Massillon, the only complaint was that we waited this
| long. "Saddam should have been removed a long time ago, either by the
| United States or by the surrounding Arab states for the crimes he
| committed against his people." As you would expect, however, there was
| not unanimity on the question. Spc. Dickens thought "there were other
| places that needed attention first" but said, "[N]ow that we are here,
| we need to finish the job."
|
| Rooney's second question was: "Are you doing what America set out to do
| to make Iraq a democracy, or have we failed so badly that we should
| pack up and get out before more of you are killed?" This question drew
| a unanimous and emphatic response from every trooper I spoke to. Spc.
| Dickens explained, "[w]e're doing exactly what we set out to do." As
| for pulling out, he took the prospect quite personally: "We've told the
| people that we are here to help. If they pull us out now, they would
| make me into a liar." Spc. Richmond recognized a simple fact which too
| many armchair analysts in the states overlook: "We are doing what is
| necessary to make Iraq a democracy - it takes time." Sgt. Black echoed
| this sentiment, saying "[a]nyone who thinks that we could undo 35 years
| of brutality with a band-aid is sorely mistaken." Black emphasized the
| work being done by his troop - including training the Iraqi National
| Guard and digging wells for local villages - as evidence of the good
| that is being done on a daily basis by the military in Iraq. Sgt.
| Porter pointed out that his troop is "helping the Kurds and the Arabs
| to work together" - something I witnessed in a contract which the
| platoon helped negotiate between two villages, one Kurdish and one
| Arab, which had previous harbored distrust toward each other. And
| again, the irrepressible Spc. James offered candor: "Who the hell is
| saying we failed?" He conceded, "it's tough over here, but you expect
| that. . . . This is a war against terrorism; this is about winning the
| peace. That doesn't mean that there isn't going to be any fighting."
|
| Rooney's third question was: "Do the orders you get handed down from
| one headquarters to another, all far removed from the fighting, seem
| sensible, or do you think our highest command is out of touch with the
| reality of your situation?" Cpt. Trampes Crow, a civil-affairs officer
| from Alabama, gave a response typical of the troops: "Every soldier
| thinks that headquarters is out of touch.... What kind of question is
| that? Of course he is going to get the kind of answer he wants." Sgt.
| Black agreed: "I think that is just a bogus question and a waste of
| ink. I think that every soldier going back to the days of spears and
| slingshots thought that their leaders were out of touch.... But with
| modern communication, they are probably more in touch." Sgt. Porter
| thought that the "highest command has some sense of what's going on,
| but they don't know exactly what's going on. But then, we don't know
| what's going on in headquarters, and if we did, [the orders] might make
| more sense." Spc. Richmond had his doubts, suggesting that "a lot of
| the commands they give us are out of touch with reality, even if they
| are for our safety." And 1st Lt. Barry Naum of Chardon, Ohio, offered
| some historical perspective: "[The orders] seem more sensible than if
| someone told me to get on a boat and charge on a beach filled with
| German machine guns. When have orders ever 'made sense' to a soldier?"
|
| Mr. Rooney's fourth question descended into rhetorical absurdity: If
| you could have a medal or a trip home, which would you take? Not
| surprisingly, all of the guys said they would prefer to be at home,
| something Spc. James expressed poignantly in saying, "[g]etting to see
| your family is better than any medal out there." But Cpt. Crow got to
| the larger issue, and addressed what seemed to be the motivation behind
| Rooney's simplistic question: "Who wouldn't want a trip home? If he is
| getting at the bigger question of whether we should be here or whether
| we should go home, then we need to stay here to finish the job." Sgt.
| Porter said: "Who doesn't want to come home? But it's not like you
| hear 'We want to go home! We want to go home.'"
|
| 5. "Are you encouraged by all the talk back home about how brave you
| are and how everyone supports you?" A lot of the guys had problems with
| the use of terms like brave or hero. Sgt. Porter's response is
| representative: "Encouraged, yes. It's good to hear that people are
| remembering you. But brave isn't really a term we use. It's just doing
| your job." Sgt. Black said: "Absolutely, I'm encouraged by the words of
| support back home. Am I brave? No. I'm just a guy; I'm just a soldier.
| But I'm very happy to have the support of my nation. I was blessed to
| have the support of the nation in the two wars that I have been in."
| Spc. James explained how much the support means: "Oh yeah, it's a big
| motivator. Puts a smile on my face. You got kids from school writing
| you letters, and you've got family and friends. It's a big help.... A
| lot of people, they look up to you. I'm sure when I get home and I put
| on that uniform.... it's truly an honor to wear the uniform. You get
| treated better when you wear the uniform." Finally, Lt. Naum
| opined: "Yeah. It's more encouraging than what the press is saying....
| It's more encouraging than him telling me that I'm a victim. I've never
| been a victim."
|
| Lt. Naum was referring to Mr. Rooney's assertion later in the article
| that the National Guard members are predominantly serving for the
| money, and didn't think they would be called up. Rooney says they are
| therefore victims, not heroes. Sgt. Porter protested, "We're not
| victims. We signed up for this. Many of us re-enlisted." Addressing the
| idea that National Guard members didn't know what they were getting
| into, Lt. Naum said the vast majority of the soldiers who are E-4 and
| below enlisted after 9/11 - after we were at war, and thus with the
| knowledge that they were likely to be called up. Sgt. Black explained
| that many of the men not only volunteered once to join the National
| Guard, but volunteered a second time to come to Iraq. Indeed, a number
| of the men in this very platoon either transferred into the platoon to
| serve in Iraq or specifically volunteered to be deployed.
|
| I wish Rooney's patronizing column was an isolated occurrence, but his
| style of imputing negative morale and treating the troops as simpletons
| who don't know what they're doing is reflective of the current mode of
| journalism. Because quasi-journalists like Rooney did not agree with
| the war and believed it was not justified to their standards, they
| extrapolate that the men involved in it must not have a sense of
| purpose. But as the soldiers' responses to these questions demonstrate,
| Rooney and his colleagues are sorely mistaken.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message

Z-Z-Z-Z-Z--Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-z-z-z-z-z-z--z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z


CM

Jesus, Cappy, have you never learned the simple art of abbreviating
quotations??

Max

What?!! Huh.... Oh Sorry I fell Asleep reading that long winded passage
into coma land.
;-)

CM

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
|
| Z-Z-Z-Z-Z--Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-z-z-z-z-z-z--z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z
|
|
| CM
|
| Jesus, Cappy, have you never learned the simple art of abbreviating
| quotations??
|
| Max
|
|
|

CM - you gotta work on your scanning technique.
Scout


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
What?!! Huh.... Oh Sorry I fell Asleep reading that long winded passage
into coma land.
;-)

CM

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
|
| Z-Z-Z-Z-Z--Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-z-z-z-z-z-z--z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z
|
|
| CM
|
| Jesus, Cappy, have you never learned the simple art of abbreviating
| quotations??
|
| Max
|
|
|

Jax claims 3000 words a minute..... I think I can get about 300.... 30 if I
want to understand the subject! ;-)

CM

"Scout" wrote in message
...
| CM - you gotta work on your scanning technique.
| Scout
|
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| ...
| What?!! Huh.... Oh Sorry I fell Asleep reading that long winded passage
| into coma land.
| ;-)
|
| CM
|
| "Maxprop" wrote in message
| nk.net...
| |
| | "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| |
| | Z-Z-Z-Z-Z--Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-z-z-z-z-z-z--z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z
| |
| |
| | CM
| |
| | Jesus, Cappy, have you never learned the simple art of abbreviating
| | quotations??
| |
| | Max
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|

3 if there's gonna be a test : )
Scout

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Jax claims 3000 words a minute..... I think I can get about 300.... 30 if
I
want to understand the subject! ;-)

CM

"Scout" wrote in message
...
| CM - you gotta work on your scanning technique.
| Scout
|
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| ...
| What?!! Huh.... Oh Sorry I fell Asleep reading that long winded
passage
| into coma land.
| ;-)
|
| CM
|
| "Maxprop" wrote in message
| nk.net...
| |
| | "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| |
| | Z-Z-Z-Z-Z--Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-z-z-z-z-z-z--z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z
| |
| |
| | CM
| |
| | Jesus, Cappy, have you never learned the simple art of abbreviating
| | quotations??
| |
| | Max
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|