That's good to know, 'cuz that's a somewhat recent change. Thanks for
the heads up. (Obviously, I need to update my catalogs). However, not
all of 'em are designed that way.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

David Ditch wrote:
I'd like to be doing water sports so I don't want a cruiser.

With 3 small children aboard??? Mom will be driving the boat...you'll be
in the water...who'll be watching them? It's too hot in the summer to
just stuff 'em all into the cuddy, especially wearing life jackets.

The water is a very dangerous place for small children unless at least
one parent has a close eye on 'em every second...'cuz toddlers are the
only creatures on earth that can move faster than the speed of
light--one second they're where you put 'em, the next they're out of
sight. Have you really thought this through? More and more, I'm
convinced you ought to rent a boat for a day to see what it's like
before buying anything. And take a CG Aux or US Power Squadron boating
safety course before you take your brood out on the Bay!

Just my $.02 worth...and btw...A small cruiser (24-26') is just as
capable of pulling a skier or a tube as a cuddy.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:16:06 +0000, Ronald A. Widman wrote:

If you boat out of Sandy Point State Park in Annapolis or just visit, the
pumpout station is free. That's the good news. The bad news is that it is
taken out of service during the "off season" (now).

The next step up from a 23' cuddie is a cabin cruiser of 24' or more. These
typically have a china head and holding tank of 15 gallons or more. Pumpout
is relatively painless, tie up at the pump, remove the deck fitting cover,
insert the hose, and turn on the pump. No fuss, no muss!

I agree with the others, a 23' cuddie seems a little small for two adults
and three children. Remember that they will grow larger over time.


Geez, the guys talking about daytrips and such. We did just fine with 2
adults and 2 teenage kids (one was me!) in a 14 ft runabout.

Also, for the application he's talking about ("emergencies" or convenience
for an afternoon's outing) a dump-onshore portapottie might be less hassle
than a pumpout. He's talking about 2-3 flushes, maybe. No need for the
40-gal tank someone recommended.

My vote would be for the 23ft (or smaller) cuddy with a portapottie.
Simple, no plumbing to go wrong, no pumpout stations to find...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...

If you are going to carry the tank to be emptied I would recommend
the 6 gallon tank.

50 lbs is a LOT to carry, Rod!

The fact that the tank can hold 6 gallons doesn't mean that you have to wait
untill it is full before you empty it!

And I routinely grab a pair of 6 gallon gas cans and carry them down the
dock. Gas weighs less than water/sewage but it is still manageable. If
nothing else, you go get the dock cart to wheel it down the dock.



If you are going to rely on just the pump out, then I would
recommend a tank of at least 40 gallons.

On a 23' cuddy??? Ye gods, Rod...he'd have to put the toilet in the
cockpit and turn the entire cuddy into a holding tank!

The size of the tank has nothing to do with where the toilet needs to be
located. Put the toilet in the cuddy and pump the sewage to a tank in the
engine compartment.

I agree, however, that it is unlikely a 23 foot boat will find room for such
a tank. That doesn't change my recommendation, however. What I suspect it
will do is favor the removable tank for his application.


Even if it were practical, 40 gallons is overkill...most boats on the
Bay have 20-25 gallon tanks. Pumpouts are plentiful in MD...and most
were paid for with federal grant money, which limits the amount they can
charge for a pumpout to $5.

The San Francisco Bay also has pumpouts that were paid for with the
Federal Grant money. None of the pumouts that I am aware of on the Bay
charge anything, I suspect because it would cost them more to manage the
collection of the fee than it would be worth. These are also the pumpouts
that are typically in poor or non working condition. The exceptions are the
units that are in awkward or hard to get to spots, deep in a marina.



IMO, a permanently installed 5-6 gal portapotty is the only viable
option for him on a boat that size.

I agree that a 5-6 gallon portapotty is the best option. The choice of
permanently installed or carry the tank to dump it is in question. Perhaps
a deciding factor is if this boat ever gets put on a trailer and taken home
or to some other location. If your only option is to pump the tank out, you
MUST empty the tank before you load the boat on the trailer to go home.
That can be a real hassle on a Sunday evening when you want to hurry up and
leave. It can be impossible if you have visited a local lake that has no
pumpout.

Rod

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
All good advice if we're talking about a cruiser at least 25' with an 8'
beam, an enclosed head, standup room, and a couple of batteries (the
Lectra/San is legal on the Chesapeake Bay). But here, we're talking
about a 23' cuddy that's likely to have a 6' beam....the only space for
any toilet will be under a cushion in the cuddy.


6' Beam on a 23' cuddy? Not if it was built in recent history. Any modern
23' cuddy will have a minimum beam of 8', and more likely 8'6".

Peggie Hall wrote:

We really don't use it all that ofter making sure the kids go before we
head out. I think it got use twice this summer.


But you're on an inland fresh water lake, Jack...where it's a lot easier
to just "take a swim" when necessary than it is on the Chesapeake Bay.
The sea nettles (a type of jellyfish) can make that a very interesting
experience.

Which reminds me of a story that's funny in the telling, but prob'ly not
to the person it happened to: a friend's wife is exceptionally
modest...she'd go down the swim ladder as an alternative to using the
head...but wouldn't drop her drawers--which on this night were
voluminous. They billowed out around her while she was waist deep in the
water...naturally clung to her as she came up. On this particular night,
she'd managed to trap a sea nettle under 'em. As her husband put it, "modesty went out the window while she invented break dancing in the
cockpit as I ran below to get the meat tenderizer."

Btw...how IS life on Lanier these days?

Peggie


Lanier was great this summer, The water is still very high. The highest
I have seen this late in the year since I moved here. Last Saturday I
made a run up the Chatt-arm of the lake and enjoyed the fall colors with
the family. Will most likely get out at least one day this weekend as it
is suppose to be around 75+ all weekend. :-)

The only draw back was that a lot of the swimming beaches were under
water just about all year. So the kids were limited for the most part
with just swimming around the boat on the hook. And not going ashore much.

You take care, and drop me a line if you decide to visit your former
home waters again

Capt Jack R..

8'6" beam



"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
All good advice if we're talking about a cruiser at least 25' with an 8'
beam, an enclosed head, standup room, and a couple of batteries (the
Lectra/San is legal on the Chesapeake Bay). But here, we're talking
about a 23' cuddy that's likely to have a 6' beam....the only space for
any toilet will be under a cushion in the cuddy.

If you are going to carry the tank to be emptied I would recommend
the 6 gallon tank.

50 lbs is a LOT to carry, Rod!

If you are going to rely on just the pump out, then I would
recommend a tank of at least 40 gallons.

On a 23' cuddy??? Ye gods, Rod...he'd have to put the toilet in the
cockpit and turn the entire cuddy into a holding tank!

Even if it were practical, 40 gallons is overkill...most boats on the
Bay have 20-25 gallon tanks. Pumpouts are plentiful in MD...and most
were paid for with federal grant money, which limits the amount they can
charge for a pumpout to $5.

IMO, a permanently installed 5-6 gal portapotty is the only viable
option for him on a boat that size. There's no place to put a toilet AND
a tank...and besides, pumping a toilet is more of a challenge than kids
the age of his are likely to be able to meet. And, because they don't
use any real flush water, the 5-6 portapotty holds about as many flushes
as a 12-15 gallon holding tank connected to a manual marine toilet. I've
spent a few weekends aboard boats equipped with 'em...that's enough for
4 adults for a full weekend including two nights aboard...so it should
be enough to see his family through a full Sat/Sun weekend.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

MD requires a spotter over 12, so I'll only be in the water skiing if my
friends are with me.
Thanks for the advice.

David

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
David Ditch wrote:
I'd like to be doing water sports so I don't want a cruiser.

With 3 small children aboard??? Mom will be driving the boat...you'll be
in the water...who'll be watching them? It's too hot in the summer to
just stuff 'em all into the cuddy, especially wearing life jackets.

The water is a very dangerous place for small children unless at least
one parent has a close eye on 'em every second...'cuz toddlers are the
only creatures on earth that can move faster than the speed of
light--one second they're where you put 'em, the next they're out of
sight. Have you really thought this through? More and more, I'm
convinced you ought to rent a boat for a day to see what it's like
before buying anything. And take a CG Aux or US Power Squadron boating
safety course before you take your brood out on the Bay!

Just my $.02 worth...and btw...A small cruiser (24-26') is just as
capable of pulling a skier or a tube as a cuddy.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:43:52 +0000, David Ditch wrote:

Thanks for all the replys.
All the boats I am looking at come standard with the porta pottie in the
cuddie. The thing I'm contemplating is to get the pump out option or not.
Its me, my wife and 3 kids total.
I'd expect outings to be several hours at a time, not necessarily all day.
I'd expect that If I do an all day trip, there would be some stops along the
way to some dock side restaurants or something.


I'm confused about all the replies that say a 23ft cuddy is too small for
this application. Hell, I see families of 5 or more out for the afternoon
in 18-ft runabouts all the time. I also think a small cuddy for pottie and
changing into/out of swimsuits would be handy.

As long as you're not doing overnights, a 20-23 ft cuddy would be fine. A
bigger boat means: More initial cost, more moorage costs (even the temp
ones at restaurants, etc), more operating costs (read: FUEL! See the
thread on "Energy Independance"), and if you're towing it, bigger tow
vehicle (again, read more fuel consumption!) and so on.

Same for the portable vs pumpout: The portable is simpler and cheaper.
WHEN the head starts to smell, if it's a portapottie you can just chuck
it, but a built-in has hoses going in inaccessable places, thru-hulls...

I say, keep it simple!

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12
Previously:
"Valkyrie" Campion 18
"Starsend" Cal 25
"Determination" Venture 22

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:43:52 +0000, David Ditch wrote:


Thanks for all the replys.
All the boats I am looking at come standard with the porta pottie in the
cuddie. The thing I'm contemplating is to get the pump out option or not.
Its me, my wife and 3 kids total.
I'd expect outings to be several hours at a time, not necessarily all day.
I'd expect that If I do an all day trip, there would be some stops along the
way to some dock side restaurants or something.



I'm confused about all the replies that say a 23ft cuddy is too small for
this application. Hell, I see families of 5 or more out for the afternoon
in 18-ft runabouts all the time. I also think a small cuddy for pottie and
changing into/out of swimsuits would be handy.

As long as you're not doing overnights, a 20-23 ft cuddy would be fine. A
bigger boat means: More initial cost, more moorage costs (even the temp
ones at restaurants, etc), more operating costs (read: FUEL! See the
thread on "Energy Independance"), and if you're towing it, bigger tow
vehicle (again, read more fuel consumption!) and so on.

Same for the portable vs pumpout: The portable is simpler and cheaper.
WHEN the head starts to smell, if it's a portapottie you can just chuck
it, but a built-in has hoses going in inaccessable places, thru-hulls...

I say, keep it simple!

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12
Previously:
"Valkyrie" Campion 18
"Starsend" Cal 25
"Determination" Venture 22


It works for my family of four on day trips. (since 1996) The 21ft
Crownline we have has a small v8 (305) which is does the job, And for
day trips is perfect as noted above w/porta pottie.

I think It just depends on his application. If he is looking at doing
more than day tripping he might want somthing else. But I like the fuel
consumption of the 305 as compaired to larger engines. I don't want to
maintain a enclosed head system etc.

From his discription I know my choice. He will have to make up his own.
But I am with you on this one Lloyd

Capt Jack R..