Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David

I take it your looking at portable toilets. I would go without the pump
out, and just use the public head to discharge the waste. Saving the pump
out fee. The Person you need to talk to is Peggy at rec.boats.cruising.
She is the guru authority for marine plumbing.

Jack
"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little
tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David

David Ditch wrote:
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

That's a LOT of people on a 23' boat! I don't think you have any choice
but to go with a self-contained unit because a toilet and separate
remote holding tank will eat up too much space that's needed for
storage. The only question is, what size portapotty.

Portapotties come in two sizes--2-3 gallon models, and 5-6 gallon
models--and are also available as portable (take the tank off the boat
and and empty it down a toilet--which many marinas won't allow because
of the potential for a mess in their bathrooms) or permanently installed
fitted for pumpout. Unless you're gorilla, only the smaller size is
practical to carry off the boat...'cuz waste weighs 8.333
lbs/gal...making the weight of a full 5-6 gallon tank about 50 pounds.
But I don't think the smaller size will be adequate for your family's
needs. That makes a permanently installed 5-6 gal model the only
practical choice. However, since the larger models are taller than the
small ones, a 5-6 gal model may not fit in the only available location
for it in a 23' cuddy.

But I dunno how you can comfortably--and safely--carry 5 people and all
the stuff needed for children that small in a 23' cuddy either. Have you
really thought about all you'll need and where you'll put it on the
boats you're looking at? Every boat I've ever considered, the first
thing I do is mentally try to put away everything I know I'll need and
want aboard...I suggest you do the same.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

"David Ditch" wrote in message
...

I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?

There are a variety of different head arrangements, some of which may be
illegal in your boating area.

A direct discharge system uses a pump to directly empty the toilet bowl
overboard through a thru-hull fitting in the bottom of the boat. Such a
system is legal if you are a few miles out in the ocean but is NOT legal in
any bay or inland waterway.

A variation of that system is to treat the waste and then dump it overboard.
A "Lectra-san" is a brand name of such a system. Dumping the treated waste
is acceptable in some bays and inland tribrutaries, but is still illegal in
many areas.

The most common head arrangment for use in inland waters is the holding
tank. The same toilet as the direct discharge is usually used, but the
waste is pumped into a holding tank instead of overboard. Many boats that
are used in both inland and off shore will often have a "Y Valve" so they
can choose between pumping overboard or into the tank. Beware, though, as
many inland areas consider the Y-valve to be illegal.

A variation of the holding tank approach is a "porta-pottie". This uses a
very simple toilet that simply dumps the waste into a self contained holding
tank directly under the seat. You can usually separate the tank portion
from the seat portion and carry it to any restroom to empty.

A variation of the porta-pottie is to include a pump-out fitting so that the
tank can be emptied while it is still in place. Obviously, if you have the
pump-out fitting then this fitting would have to be removed before you could
manually carry the tank off to be emptied.

On any boat that has a holding tank with pump out fitting the proceedure to
empty it is essentially the same. The pump out fitting is a deck plate that
looks just like the filler plates for your water or gas. DON'T mix them up!
To empty the tank, you drive the boat over to the pumpout station, hold the
hose into the open fitting, start the pump.

If the pump out station is well maintained this is an easy operation.
Sometimes finding a pump out station that works at all is difficult, and
when you do find one it isn't in the best of condition. In some areas the
pump out stations are free and open to the public (these are generally the
poorly maintained or non working ones!). In other areas you have to pay to
use the dump station. $15 is a fairly common fee to use a private dump
station, although many marinas offer it free to their tenants.


If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little
tank?

My first cruiser was a 25 foot Stephens. I used a porta-pottie for my
family of four (two adults, two small children). A porta-pottie with a 3
gallon tank was enough for one day. For two days, maybe three a 6 gallon
tank was necessary. If my kids had been bigger I suspect that the 6 gallons
would not have been enough.

On the plus side, the tank was so easy to deal with. I kept the boat in a
slip at a marina, so when I returned I just unhooked the tank, walked down
the dock to the restroom and dumped it. The time and hassle was NOTHING
compared to cruising over to the dump station. It also always worked! Some
marinas don't like people dumping porta-potties into their restroom, so you
could run into issues there. If the marina also has a RV park, then they
might have a RV dump station that you can carry it down to and dump it
there.

If you are going to carry the tank to be emptied I would recommend the 6
gallon tank. If you are going to rely on just the pump out , then I would
recommend a tank of at least 40 gallons.

Rod

All good advice if we're talking about a cruiser at least 25' with an 8'
beam, an enclosed head, standup room, and a couple of batteries (the
Lectra/San is legal on the Chesapeake Bay). But here, we're talking
about a 23' cuddy that's likely to have a 6' beam....the only space for
any toilet will be under a cushion in the cuddy.

If you are going to carry the tank to be emptied I would recommend
the 6 gallon tank.

50 lbs is a LOT to carry, Rod!

If you are going to rely on just the pump out, then I would
recommend a tank of at least 40 gallons.

On a 23' cuddy??? Ye gods, Rod...he'd have to put the toilet in the
cockpit and turn the entire cuddy into a holding tank!

Even if it were practical, 40 gallons is overkill...most boats on the
Bay have 20-25 gallon tanks. Pumpouts are plentiful in MD...and most
were paid for with federal grant money, which limits the amount they can
charge for a pumpout to $5.

IMO, a permanently installed 5-6 gal portapotty is the only viable
option for him on a boat that size. There's no place to put a toilet AND
a tank...and besides, pumping a toilet is more of a challenge than kids
the age of his are likely to be able to meet. And, because they don't
use any real flush water, the 5-6 portapotty holds about as many flushes
as a 12-15 gallon holding tank connected to a manual marine toilet. I've
spent a few weekends aboard boats equipped with 'em...that's enough for
4 adults for a full weekend including two nights aboard...so it should
be enough to see his family through a full Sat/Sun weekend.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...

If you are going to carry the tank to be emptied I would recommend
the 6 gallon tank.

50 lbs is a LOT to carry, Rod!

The fact that the tank can hold 6 gallons doesn't mean that you have to wait
untill it is full before you empty it!

And I routinely grab a pair of 6 gallon gas cans and carry them down the
dock. Gas weighs less than water/sewage but it is still manageable. If
nothing else, you go get the dock cart to wheel it down the dock.



If you are going to rely on just the pump out, then I would
recommend a tank of at least 40 gallons.

On a 23' cuddy??? Ye gods, Rod...he'd have to put the toilet in the
cockpit and turn the entire cuddy into a holding tank!

The size of the tank has nothing to do with where the toilet needs to be
located. Put the toilet in the cuddy and pump the sewage to a tank in the
engine compartment.

I agree, however, that it is unlikely a 23 foot boat will find room for such
a tank. That doesn't change my recommendation, however. What I suspect it
will do is favor the removable tank for his application.


Even if it were practical, 40 gallons is overkill...most boats on the
Bay have 20-25 gallon tanks. Pumpouts are plentiful in MD...and most
were paid for with federal grant money, which limits the amount they can
charge for a pumpout to $5.

The San Francisco Bay also has pumpouts that were paid for with the
Federal Grant money. None of the pumouts that I am aware of on the Bay
charge anything, I suspect because it would cost them more to manage the
collection of the fee than it would be worth. These are also the pumpouts
that are typically in poor or non working condition. The exceptions are the
units that are in awkward or hard to get to spots, deep in a marina.



IMO, a permanently installed 5-6 gal portapotty is the only viable
option for him on a boat that size.

I agree that a 5-6 gallon portapotty is the best option. The choice of
permanently installed or carry the tank to dump it is in question. Perhaps
a deciding factor is if this boat ever gets put on a trailer and taken home
or to some other location. If your only option is to pump the tank out, you
MUST empty the tank before you load the boat on the trailer to go home.
That can be a real hassle on a Sunday evening when you want to hurry up and
leave. It can be impossible if you have visited a local lake that has no
pumpout.

Rod

a deciding factor is if this boat ever gets put on a trailer and taken
home
or to some other location. If your only option is to pump the tank out,
you
MUST empty the tank before you load the boat on the trailer to go home.
That can be a real hassle on a Sunday evening when you want to hurry up
and
leave. It can be impossible if you have visited a local lake that has no
pumpout.

Rod

You don't have to pump out every time you boat (although that's the best
practice). I bought a macerator pump and some fittings and created my own
pumpout which I can use at home. I plan to tie into the septic system but
for now I pump into a plastic tank and empty it into a toilet. Cost - about
$120.00. My holding tank (in a 25' cruiser) holds 15 gallons.
Ron

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
All good advice if we're talking about a cruiser at least 25' with an 8'
beam, an enclosed head, standup room, and a couple of batteries (the
Lectra/San is legal on the Chesapeake Bay). But here, we're talking
about a 23' cuddy that's likely to have a 6' beam....the only space for
any toilet will be under a cushion in the cuddy.


6' Beam on a 23' cuddy? Not if it was built in recent history. Any modern
23' cuddy will have a minimum beam of 8', and more likely 8'6".

8'6" beam



"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
All good advice if we're talking about a cruiser at least 25' with an 8'
beam, an enclosed head, standup room, and a couple of batteries (the
Lectra/San is legal on the Chesapeake Bay). But here, we're talking
about a 23' cuddy that's likely to have a 6' beam....the only space for
any toilet will be under a cushion in the cuddy.

If you are going to carry the tank to be emptied I would recommend
the 6 gallon tank.

50 lbs is a LOT to carry, Rod!

If you are going to rely on just the pump out, then I would
recommend a tank of at least 40 gallons.

On a 23' cuddy??? Ye gods, Rod...he'd have to put the toilet in the
cockpit and turn the entire cuddy into a holding tank!

Even if it were practical, 40 gallons is overkill...most boats on the
Bay have 20-25 gallon tanks. Pumpouts are plentiful in MD...and most
were paid for with federal grant money, which limits the amount they can
charge for a pumpout to $5.

IMO, a permanently installed 5-6 gal portapotty is the only viable
option for him on a boat that size. There's no place to put a toilet AND
a tank...and besides, pumping a toilet is more of a challenge than kids
the age of his are likely to be able to meet. And, because they don't
use any real flush water, the 5-6 portapotty holds about as many flushes
as a 12-15 gallon holding tank connected to a manual marine toilet. I've
spent a few weekends aboard boats equipped with 'em...that's enough for
4 adults for a full weekend including two nights aboard...so it should
be enough to see his family through a full Sat/Sun weekend.

Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

If you boat out of Sandy Point State Park in Annapolis or just visit, the
pumpout station is free. That's the good news. The bad news is that it is
taken out of service during the "off season" (now).

The next step up from a 23' cuddie is a cabin cruiser of 24' or more. These
typically have a china head and holding tank of 15 gallons or more. Pumpout
is relatively painless, tie up at the pump, remove the deck fitting cover,
insert the hose, and turn on the pump. No fuss, no muss!

I agree with the others, a 23' cuddie seems a little small for two adults
and three children. Remember that they will grow larger over time.

Ron


"David Ditch" wrote in message
...
Hi all,
I am looking at various 23' cuddies.
I have a family of 5 including 3 kids ages 5,3,and 1
I have the option of a pump out or no pump out head.
What is invoved in pumping out? Where?
If not pumped out, what is involved in dumping the wast in the little
tank?
I live in the Baltimore/Annapolis are of the Chesapeake.

David