On 7/23/15 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:54:31 -0400, Justan Olphat
wrote:

On 7/23/2015 3:29 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:36:31 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:


If you set up a building trades table at career day, you would be a
pretty lonely guy.

That must be why there is a waiting list in most of the skilled trades
nationwide to get into union-contractor apprenticeship programs.


Slackers all, looking for handouts.

Union apprenticeship programs are really designed to limit the number
of people coming into the trade and they have a very limited number of
slots.


Not for the reasons you think you know.

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 3:17:28 PM UTC-4, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 3:13 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 12:12:45 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 7/23/15 12:09 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:46:55 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:



As to blaming the bankers for the tanking, try being a bit honest. It won't hurt.

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thre...ons_drive.html

There, that clears that up.



Oh, snerk.

Now you are snerking Mike Bloomberg? He is to the left of you.


Oh, Mikey is writing under a nom de plume now, eh?

The last time I looked "Bloomberg Business" was one of Mikey's rags.



And you think Bloomberg looks at every article every day planned for his
site before it appears, eh?

Maybe not, but that doesn't stop you from throwing articles under the bus when they are published from a to-the-right-of-you site, now does it? Think their owners look at every article?

On 7/23/15 5:47 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:19:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 7/23/15 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:54:31 -0400, Justan Olphat
wrote:

On 7/23/2015 3:29 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:36:31 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:


If you set up a building trades table at career day, you would be a
pretty lonely guy.

That must be why there is a waiting list in most of the skilled trades
nationwide to get into union-contractor apprenticeship programs.


Slackers all, looking for handouts.

Union apprenticeship programs are really designed to limit the number
of people coming into the trade and they have a very limited number of
slots.


Not for the reasons you think you know.

That is certainly not what they say but if they really wanted more
people in the trade, they would have more slots. It is like the AMAS,
they bitch about the lack of doctors, then do everything they can to
limit the number who can be there.

The industry that should be limiting the numbers are lawyers and we
crank out 100,000 more every year



Adding "more slots" requires spending millions more on facilities,
training trainers, paying trainers, and much more. It takes three to
five years to properly train in the classroom and on the job a qualified
journeyman or woman. You apparently think the training is done via some
sort of rump group on the job site before work begins each morning.
Well, maybe that works for stick builders in your part of Florida, eh?

On 7/23/2015 6:47 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 5:47 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:19:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 7/23/15 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:54:31 -0400, Justan Olphat
wrote:

On 7/23/2015 3:29 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:36:31 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:


If you set up a building trades table at career day, you would be a
pretty lonely guy.

That must be why there is a waiting list in most of the skilled
trades
nationwide to get into union-contractor apprenticeship programs.


Slackers all, looking for handouts.

Union apprenticeship programs are really designed to limit the number
of people coming into the trade and they have a very limited number of
slots.


Not for the reasons you think you know.

That is certainly not what they say but if they really wanted more
people in the trade, they would have more slots. It is like the AMAS,
they bitch about the lack of doctors, then do everything they can to
limit the number who can be there.

The industry that should be limiting the numbers are lawyers and we
crank out 100,000 more every year



Adding "more slots" requires spending millions more on facilities,
training trainers, paying trainers, and much more. It takes three to
five years to properly train in the classroom and on the job a qualified
journeyman or woman. You apparently think the training is done via some
sort of rump group on the job site before work begins each morning.
Well, maybe that works for stick builders in your part of Florida, eh?


Slow learners, huh?

On 7/23/15 6:57 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/23/2015 6:47 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 5:47 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:19:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 7/23/15 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:54:31 -0400, Justan Olphat
wrote:

On 7/23/2015 3:29 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:36:31 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:


If you set up a building trades table at career day, you would be a
pretty lonely guy.

That must be why there is a waiting list in most of the skilled
trades
nationwide to get into union-contractor apprenticeship programs.


Slackers all, looking for handouts.

Union apprenticeship programs are really designed to limit the number
of people coming into the trade and they have a very limited number of
slots.


Not for the reasons you think you know.

That is certainly not what they say but if they really wanted more
people in the trade, they would have more slots. It is like the AMAS,
they bitch about the lack of doctors, then do everything they can to
limit the number who can be there.

The industry that should be limiting the numbers are lawyers and we
crank out 100,000 more every year



Adding "more slots" requires spending millions more on facilities,
training trainers, paying trainers, and much more. It takes three to
five years to properly train in the classroom and on the job a qualified
journeyman or woman. You apparently think the training is done via some
sort of rump group on the job site before work begins each morning.
Well, maybe that works for stick builders in your part of Florida, eh?


Slow learners, huh?



It's always a grin to watch the plutocrats and wannabes put down the
difficulties involved in learning how to be a competent building
tradesman who works on large commercial buildings. I doubt anyone here
could learn or pass the specialty welding requirements involved, for
example, in a pharma plant, or a nuclear plant, or the chemistry
requirements involved in high strength cold weather mortar mixing or
coloration for bricklaying, or the building, running and maintenance of
a large-scale power plant. These workers aren't nailing together 2x4's
to build the wall frames of a stick built house, or using glue to
assembly plumbing pipe.

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 11:03 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:23:07 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 18:19:14 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:


The legals do not want the jobs we need the illegals do. They make
more
money and benefits from the government than they would earn working.

Landscaping is landscaping...whether legal or not. I don't know how
bad the welfare
program is with the 'legal' immigrants. My impression of Mexicans is
that they bust
their ass. I'm sure there are some bad ones out there, but they're
not the ones that
get the bad press around here.

The rumor around here is that during ther 2008-10 problems the legals
who did not go back to Mexico discovered public assistance and now
that work is plentiful, they just got a fake ID, work their ass off
and still collect benefits with 2 SSNs.
At least that is what the ICE guys said on the last raid when they
were just confiscating fake IDs



Always amazes me that the bile and insults aimed towards hard-working
Mexicans typically doing jobs U.S. citizens won't do isn't also aimed
at the banksters and brokersters who tanked the U.S. economy and the
corporationists who sold our jobs offshore and are raking in record
profits because of cheap labor.


Like the people at Apple that you support with enthusiasm?

On 7/23/15 7:57 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:47:50 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 7/23/15 5:47 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:19:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 7/23/15 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:54:31 -0400, Justan Olphat
wrote:

On 7/23/2015 3:29 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 3:22 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 11:36:31 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:


If you set up a building trades table at career day, you would be a
pretty lonely guy.

That must be why there is a waiting list in most of the skilled trades
nationwide to get into union-contractor apprenticeship programs.


Slackers all, looking for handouts.

Union apprenticeship programs are really designed to limit the number
of people coming into the trade and they have a very limited number of
slots.


Not for the reasons you think you know.

That is certainly not what they say but if they really wanted more
people in the trade, they would have more slots. It is like the AMAS,
they bitch about the lack of doctors, then do everything they can to
limit the number who can be there.

The industry that should be limiting the numbers are lawyers and we
crank out 100,000 more every year



Adding "more slots" requires spending millions more on facilities,
training trainers, paying trainers, and much more. It takes three to
five years to properly train in the classroom and on the job a qualified
journeyman or woman. You apparently think the training is done via some
sort of rump group on the job site before work begins each morning.
Well, maybe that works for stick builders in your part of Florida, eh?

Learning on the job seems to be a lot more efficient than simply
sitting people in a classroom. You can do most of the "theory" and
"code" training online.
The ECF program mixes class with "Lab" and then actual OJT.

A self starter should be able to "test out" of a lot of the theory and
code classes.
There are lots of online resources both free and fee based. Someone
who is willing to apply themselves can burn through this pretty fast.


The things that require actual hands on instruction are use of tools,
techniques and practices. Then it is just experience and you do not
get that in a classroom.

BTW there is not a lot of stick building going on here. CBS is king
because of the hurricane code. You can build with block and stucco
cheaper than buying and installing all the simpson clips you need for
stick construction and get a 150-170 MPH rating. What does Maryland
build to?
It is 90 for most of the state 110 on the south tip around St Marys
and the Eastern Shore, 120 right on the beach.
That is the 2012 code. It used to be 80 and that wasn't really
enforced.


Your post indicates you know nothing about apprenticeship training
programs in the organized building trades. The programs all combine
classroom and on the job training and work, and always have.

On 7/23/15 8:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:57:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Adding "more slots" requires spending millions more on facilities,
training trainers, paying trainers, and much more. It takes three to
five years to properly train in the classroom and on the job a qualified
journeyman or woman. You apparently think the training is done via some
sort of rump group on the job site before work begins each morning.
Well, maybe that works for stick builders in your part of Florida, eh?


Slow learners, huh?


No just that throttling I was talking about.

A lot of guys will just go get a "helper" job for a contractor and be
ready to sit for the journeyman exam in a year or two if they are
willing to do some book work at night.

We had a little study group on the old Prodigy BBs and several of us
got our inspector certifications for free. Fortunately one of the guys
was Joe Tedesco, a road warrior for IAEI and he pitched us his whole
road show, along with practice questions and assignments. All of us
smoked the IAEI tests and I also knocked out the ICBO and SBCCI
(residential, commercial and plan review)
I was standing in the parking lot in 45 minutes on the 3 hour
residential SBCCI test (100 questions) but it was the 3d time I had
taken that same basic test in less than a year. ;-)

Other guys got their contractors licenses or became inspectors, two
did both.

Old Joe was a "Bastin" guy from up in your neck of the woods.


None of that has anything to do with being able to weld the piping for a
pharma manufacturing facility, as just one example.

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 8:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:57:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Adding "more slots" requires spending millions more on facilities,
training trainers, paying trainers, and much more. It takes three to
five years to properly train in the classroom and on the job a
qualified
journeyman or woman. You apparently think the training is done via
some
sort of rump group on the job site before work begins each morning.
Well, maybe that works for stick builders in your part of Florida, eh?


Slow learners, huh?


No just that throttling I was talking about.

A lot of guys will just go get a "helper" job for a contractor and be
ready to sit for the journeyman exam in a year or two if they are
willing to do some book work at night.

We had a little study group on the old Prodigy BBs and several of us
got our inspector certifications for free. Fortunately one of the guys
was Joe Tedesco, a road warrior for IAEI and he pitched us his whole
road show, along with practice questions and assignments. All of us
smoked the IAEI tests and I also knocked out the ICBO and SBCCI
(residential, commercial and plan review)
I was standing in the parking lot in 45 minutes on the 3 hour
residential SBCCI test (100 questions) but it was the 3d time I had
taken that same basic test in less than a year. ;-)

Other guys got their contractors licenses or became inspectors, two
did both.

Old Joe was a "Bastin" guy from up in your neck of the woods.


None of that has anything to do with being able to weld the piping for
a pharma manufacturing facility, as just one example.

Or building a tunnel under Boston, or a drilling rig in the Gulf.

On 7/23/2015 8:15 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/23/15 8:12 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:57:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Adding "more slots" requires spending millions more on facilities,
training trainers, paying trainers, and much more. It takes three to
five years to properly train in the classroom and on the job a
qualified
journeyman or woman. You apparently think the training is done via some
sort of rump group on the job site before work begins each morning.
Well, maybe that works for stick builders in your part of Florida, eh?


Slow learners, huh?


No just that throttling I was talking about.

A lot of guys will just go get a "helper" job for a contractor and be
ready to sit for the journeyman exam in a year or two if they are
willing to do some book work at night.

We had a little study group on the old Prodigy BBs and several of us
got our inspector certifications for free. Fortunately one of the guys
was Joe Tedesco, a road warrior for IAEI and he pitched us his whole
road show, along with practice questions and assignments. All of us
smoked the IAEI tests and I also knocked out the ICBO and SBCCI
(residential, commercial and plan review)
I was standing in the parking lot in 45 minutes on the 3 hour
residential SBCCI test (100 questions) but it was the 3d time I had
taken that same basic test in less than a year. ;-)

Other guys got their contractors licenses or became inspectors, two
did both.

Old Joe was a "Bastin" guy from up in your neck of the woods.


None of that has anything to do with being able to weld the piping for a
pharma manufacturing facility, as just one example.


Harry, there are many ways in which one can become certified at
different levels of welding, including a nuclear certification.
Same holds true for boiler makers, pipe fitters, electricians,
carpenters, plumbers and virtually all trades at all levels.
You don't have to be union to become certified or licensed.