On 7/25/15 7:47 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/25/2015 7:14 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/25/15 2:26 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:53:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I wasn't thinking of the Navy when I posted the above, but you are
certainly correct. Some of the best tradespeople are military trained
... Navy SeaBees is an excellent example. I worked with them for a
while doing electrical work. I am sure the Army and other service
branches have excellent schools and training programs as well.



I did a little looking into these apprenticeship programs. The typical
ones I looked had 360 hours of class time spread out over 4 years. If
this was the navy, IBM or just about anyone who actually wants to get
people trained in a reasonable time would run this whole thing in
about 8-10 weeks.

I understand that there is also the "experience" part of the training
but that should be done on the job.



And once again, you display your ignorance. The "experience" part of the
training *is* done on the job. Most of the training, in fact, is done on
the job under the watchful eyes of journeymen. Only the first couple of
weeks, typically, are entirely classroom, and a good part of that time
is spent working on mockups.

I'll say this...you are a leading advocate for the dumbing down of
America and the cheapening of labor and the skills of working men and
women.


Two weeks of classroom instruction? Wow.

The training program to become a Construction Electrician (SeeBees) in
the Navy starts with a 20 week school. This is classroom instruction
and practical labs. After completing the school the "on the job"
training and experience starts at the first duty station.

The training program to become an Electrician's Mate (EM) in the Navy
starts with an 18 week school. Same as above in terms of classroom,
labs and on the job training after graduation.

My son-in-law was an EM in the Navy. After leaving the Navy he worked
as an electrician while attending night school 3 evenings a week for a
year to get his Massachusetts license. He's now back in school at night
to get his Master's license.

I'd say the Navy and non-union civilian schools require a lot more
training than your union friends receive, eh?



Missed the word "entirely," eh?

Some apprenticeship programs require a 12-week prejob program in the
classroom. Not everything is the same, same, same.

JohnnyMop flushes his head....


"I'm surely not near as tough as you, Don. After your running from slammer and Scotty,
I'm wondering how you can talk about another not being 'tough'."



WOW!
Now you're talking just like your two lowest ranking Moppetts. Hard to believe you were an officer in the US Army.

On 7/25/2015 8:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/25/15 7:47 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/25/2015 7:14 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 7/25/15 2:26 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:53:49 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I wasn't thinking of the Navy when I posted the above, but you are
certainly correct. Some of the best tradespeople are military trained
... Navy SeaBees is an excellent example. I worked with them for a
while doing electrical work. I am sure the Army and other service
branches have excellent schools and training programs as well.



I did a little looking into these apprenticeship programs. The typical
ones I looked had 360 hours of class time spread out over 4 years. If
this was the navy, IBM or just about anyone who actually wants to get
people trained in a reasonable time would run this whole thing in
about 8-10 weeks.

I understand that there is also the "experience" part of the training
but that should be done on the job.



And once again, you display your ignorance. The "experience" part of the
training *is* done on the job. Most of the training, in fact, is done on
the job under the watchful eyes of journeymen. Only the first couple of
weeks, typically, are entirely classroom, and a good part of that time
is spent working on mockups.

I'll say this...you are a leading advocate for the dumbing down of
America and the cheapening of labor and the skills of working men and
women.


Two weeks of classroom instruction? Wow.

The training program to become a Construction Electrician (SeeBees) in
the Navy starts with a 20 week school. This is classroom instruction
and practical labs. After completing the school the "on the job"
training and experience starts at the first duty station.

The training program to become an Electrician's Mate (EM) in the Navy
starts with an 18 week school. Same as above in terms of classroom,
labs and on the job training after graduation.

My son-in-law was an EM in the Navy. After leaving the Navy he worked
as an electrician while attending night school 3 evenings a week for a
year to get his Massachusetts license. He's now back in school at night
to get his Master's license.

I'd say the Navy and non-union civilian schools require a lot more
training than your union friends receive, eh?



Missed the word "entirely," eh?

Some apprenticeship programs require a 12-week prejob program in the
classroom. Not everything is the same, same, same.


I didn't miss "entirely". You said:

"Only the first couple of weeks, typically, are entirely classroom, and
a good part of that time is spent working on mockups."


I gave you a couple of examples of Navy schools that are 18-20 weeks
long and are *entirely* classroom and lab (mockup) work.

I also gave you an example of a non-union civilian school that requires
approximately 450 hours of classroom and lab instruction before you are
allowed to take the license exam. This is in addition to a sign-off by
a licensed electrician for whom you work as to your hours of experience.

I offered these examples because you are constantly trying to push union
trades and the training involved. There are other ways to become
as qualified, skilled and experienced, even more so. So, your are
correct. Not everything is the same, same, same.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 05:41:02 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

JohnnyMop flushes his head....


"I'm surely not near as tough as you, Don. After your running from slammer and Scotty,
I'm wondering how you can talk about another not being 'tough'."



WOW!
Now you're talking just like your two lowest ranking Moppetts. Hard to believe you were an officer in the US Army.

Those recreational boaters still dumping their raw sewage in Halifax harbor?
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

On 7/25/15 8:41 AM, True North wrote:
JohnnyMop flushes his head....


"I'm surely not near as tough as you, Don. After your running from slammer and Scotty,
I'm wondering how you can talk about another not being 'tough'."



WOW!
Now you're talking just like your two lowest ranking Moppetts. Hard to believe you were an officer in the US Army.



Actually, no, it isn't hard to believe.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:29:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 05:17:31 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 02:28:16 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:56:09 -0400, John H.
wrote:

CBS has pretty much made the traditional bricklayer obsolete. You can
do "Berlin wall" quality block work if you are insulating and dry
walling the inside and putting 1/2" of stucco on the outside.
All you see is the drywall and stucco finish. That is usually textured
to hide even more defects.
Strength is not much of an issue when you are doweling at least 16% of
the cells and the top 16" is solid concrete with four #5s in it.

Explain the 'Berlin Wall' analogy, please. I spent some time with a three pound
hammer and chisel trying to get some chunks from the wall right before it came all
the way down. That was one tough son of a bitch!
--

The Berlin wall was tough, but it was not pretty work. Block work
under stucco does not have to be pretty.

We must be talking different parts. In Berlin, close to 'Checkpoint Charlie', the
wall was slabs of concrete, not blocks.

I am just talking about the pictures we saw in the 60s when it was
being built (that still show up in clips when they have TV shows about
it). They showed guys just slapping block down as fast as they could,
with mortar going everywhere and that became a metaphor in the mason
community for sloppy work..

Oliver Stone was still using them in his "History of the US, Ollie
style" mini series.

Some was blocks and some was slabs.
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

On Saturday, 25 July 2015 14:35:13 UTC-3, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:29:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 05:17:31 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 02:28:16 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:56:09 -0400, John H.
wrote:

CBS has pretty much made the traditional bricklayer obsolete. You can
do "Berlin wall" quality block work if you are insulating and dry
walling the inside and putting 1/2" of stucco on the outside.
All you see is the drywall and stucco finish. That is usually textured
to hide even more defects.
Strength is not much of an issue when you are doweling at least 16% of
the cells and the top 16" is solid concrete with four #5s in it.

Explain the 'Berlin Wall' analogy, please. I spent some time with a three pound
hammer and chisel trying to get some chunks from the wall right before it came all
the way down. That was one tough son of a bitch!
--

The Berlin wall was tough, but it was not pretty work. Block work
under stucco does not have to be pretty.

We must be talking different parts. In Berlin, close to 'Checkpoint Charlie', the
wall was slabs of concrete, not blocks.

I am just talking about the pictures we saw in the 60s when it was
being built (that still show up in clips when they have TV shows about
it). They showed guys just slapping block down as fast as they could,
with mortar going everywhere and that became a metaphor in the mason
community for sloppy work..

Oliver Stone was still using them in his "History of the US, Ollie
style" mini series.

Some was blocks and some was slabs.
--



Uh..huh ...sure, Johnny!
Ever build up those weak wrists of yours?

True North wrote:
On Saturday, 25 July 2015 14:35:13 UTC-3, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:29:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 05:17:31 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 02:28:16 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:56:09 -0400, John H.
wrote:

CBS has pretty much made the traditional bricklayer obsolete. You can
do "Berlin wall" quality block work if you are insulating and dry
walling the inside and putting 1/2" of stucco on the outside.
All you see is the drywall and stucco finish. That is usually textured
to hide even more defects.
Strength is not much of an issue when you are doweling at least 16% of
the cells and the top 16" is solid concrete with four #5s in it.
Explain the 'Berlin Wall' analogy, please. I spent some time with a three pound
hammer and chisel trying to get some chunks from the wall right before it came all
the way down. That was one tough son of a bitch!
--
The Berlin wall was tough, but it was not pretty work. Block work
under stucco does not have to be pretty.
We must be talking different parts. In Berlin, close to 'Checkpoint Charlie', the
wall was slabs of concrete, not blocks.
I am just talking about the pictures we saw in the 60s when it was
being built (that still show up in clips when they have TV shows about
it). They showed guys just slapping block down as fast as they could,
with mortar going everywhere and that became a metaphor in the mason
community for sloppy work..

Oliver Stone was still using them in his "History of the US, Ollie
style" mini series.
Some was blocks and some was slabs.
--


Uh..huh ...sure, Johnny!
Ever build up those weak wrists of yours?


WTF? You have to get your wife to help you get your little, rotting,
boat on the side of your crappy house.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 22:42:43 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:35:18 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 13:29:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 05:17:31 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 02:28:16 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 16:56:09 -0400, John H.
wrote:

CBS has pretty much made the traditional bricklayer obsolete. You can
do "Berlin wall" quality block work if you are insulating and dry
walling the inside and putting 1/2" of stucco on the outside.
All you see is the drywall and stucco finish. That is usually textured
to hide even more defects.
Strength is not much of an issue when you are doweling at least 16% of
the cells and the top 16" is solid concrete with four #5s in it.

Explain the 'Berlin Wall' analogy, please. I spent some time with a three pound
hammer and chisel trying to get some chunks from the wall right before it came all
the way down. That was one tough son of a bitch!
--

The Berlin wall was tough, but it was not pretty work. Block work
under stucco does not have to be pretty.

We must be talking different parts. In Berlin, close to 'Checkpoint Charlie', the
wall was slabs of concrete, not blocks.

I am just talking about the pictures we saw in the 60s when it was
being built (that still show up in clips when they have TV shows about
it). They showed guys just slapping block down as fast as they could,
with mortar going everywhere and that became a metaphor in the mason
community for sloppy work..

Oliver Stone was still using them in his "History of the US, Ollie
style" mini series.

Some was blocks and some was slabs.

Some of the clips I was talking about are here, in the first minute

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwOfphFsUwM


This one, at the 18 second mark, shows, I believe, the slabs used in Berlin.

http://www.euronews.com/nocomment/20...-wall-in-1961/

I used to have a bag full of the chunks I got from the wall. Gave them all away with
a 'certificate' of authenticity. I expect they're all trashed by now.

Seventh Corps headquarters, after the wall was taken down, got one of the slabs,
complete with all the graffiti, which the mounted by the gate going into Kelly
Barracks.
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

On 7/25/2015 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 15:37:39 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

The problem is we have politicians catering to those who would vote public
money to themselves. Seems as if there was a warning about the life of
democracy and public money give away.

This have a number of different attributions but this is the gist of
it.
**********
About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new
constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at
the University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the
Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as
a permanent form of government."

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters
discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public
treasury."

"From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who
promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result
that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy,
which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years"


I think the solution to that short life would be,
Only people that pay federal taxes get to vote.
If you don't have money in the pie, you don't get to pick
who decides how it's spent.

SS is a payment into a retirement fund, disability plan and life
insurance for your children in case you die, and thus doesn't count
as Federal tax in my plan.
Mikek

Growing weary of seeing $3,500 worth of wheels and tires on the cars
in the parking lot of the subsidized housing unit.

---
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