On 2/18/15 1:41 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:40:26 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:06:23 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.

===

I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from
the sky when you screw up. :-)

Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can
navigate ferocious inlets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0

I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it.

===

I assume you mean panic mode?


The beginners mode sounds highly desirable while you're just getting
started.

Yeah, panic mode. The beginner's mode takes a lot of room. The plane will not turn,
climb, or desend as rapidly. I flew it in beginner's mode when I first got it, but
twice put it in trees because it wouldn't climb fast enough. Upon lots of advice, I
quit flying in beginner's mode.


You must be approaching 30 posts so far today on your toy
airplanes...will you set a record? Stay tuned.

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:43:24 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 1:41 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:40:26 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:06:23 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.

===

I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from
the sky when you screw up. :-)

Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can
navigate ferocious inlets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0

I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it.

===

I assume you mean panic mode?


The beginners mode sounds highly desirable while you're just getting
started.

Yeah, panic mode. The beginner's mode takes a lot of room. The plane will not turn,
climb, or desend as rapidly. I flew it in beginner's mode when I first got it, but
twice put it in trees because it wouldn't climb fast enough. Upon lots of advice, I
quit flying in beginner's mode.


You must be approaching 30 posts so far today on your toy
airplanes...will you set a record? Stay tuned.

Would you rather see anti-social ****?
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

On 2/18/15 1:47 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:43:24 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 1:41 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:40:26 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:06:23 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.

===

I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from
the sky when you screw up. :-)

Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can
navigate ferocious inlets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0

I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it.

===

I assume you mean panic mode?


The beginners mode sounds highly desirable while you're just getting
started.

Yeah, panic mode. The beginner's mode takes a lot of room. The plane will not turn,
climb, or desend as rapidly. I flew it in beginner's mode when I first got it, but
twice put it in trees because it wouldn't climb fast enough. Upon lots of advice, I
quit flying in beginner's mode.


You must be approaching 30 posts so far today on your toy
airplanes...will you set a record? Stay tuned.

Would you rather see anti-social ****?


Are you referring to your racist, anti-black posts?

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:48:44 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 1:47 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:43:24 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 2/18/15 1:41 PM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 12:40:26 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 09:06:23 -0500, Abit Loco
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:44:29 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:22:57 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

This is a common debate between RC pilots and those who hold a pilot's
license. Like I said before I don't knock those to enjoy the RC thing.
It's fun for many but it's a totally different experience.
Sure, there are similarities in the respect that both have wings
and go up in the air. But that's about it.

I did all of my flight instruction in a Cessna 152. After I soloed I
flew the 152 and a 150 quite a bit. I did the cross country phase and
final check flight for my ticket in a Cessna 172. All the Cessna's were
high winged aircraft.

After a while I wanted to try something different, so I arranged for a
checkout flight in a Piper Warrior which is more powerful and low
winged. Felt like I was flying a Boeing 747 by comparison.

That all said, I am glad I did it but I also realized I am not a
"natural" pilot who enjoys the stresses of flying. I like boating much
more.

===

I agree with all that, and most importantly, boats do not fall from
the sky when you screw up. :-)

Don't these new boats have the S.A.F.E. technology? I'll bet Harry's does, so he can
navigate ferocious inlets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZpFSE2pUI0

I've never used my SAFE switch. Never had enough time to get to it.

===

I assume you mean panic mode?


The beginners mode sounds highly desirable while you're just getting
started.

Yeah, panic mode. The beginner's mode takes a lot of room. The plane will not turn,
climb, or desend as rapidly. I flew it in beginner's mode when I first got it, but
twice put it in trees because it wouldn't climb fast enough. Upon lots of advice, I
quit flying in beginner's mode.


You must be approaching 30 posts so far today on your toy
airplanes...will you set a record? Stay tuned.

Would you rather see anti-social ****?


Are you referring to your racist, anti-black posts?

I'm referring to the last 247 posts you've made.

The Bozo's Bin...is it full yet? Are you heeding Eriksson's advice - if you don't
like it, don't read it?
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

On 2/18/2015 8:19 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot.

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.



A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you?



Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal
you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do.



For Christ's sake John, we are talking about model replicas of small,
recreational aircraft, not a F/A-18. I am not interested in your silly
arguments and comparisons. If you enjoy flying your RC airplane ...
have a ball. BTW ... in response to someone else's comment ... I
pursued and got my ticket years before I had much extra $$ to spend.
It was a dream I had since I was a little kid and I am very glad to have
accomplished it even though it turns out it was not something I wanted
to stay heavily involved in.

On 2/18/2015 11:19 AM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:10:31 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 2/18/2015 8:19 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot.

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.



A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you?



Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal
you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do.


I don't know why you two can't get along. It's not as if either one of
you is a Harry Krause type.

I'm trying to answer his questions as best I can. I'm thinking the RC aircraft he
flew was his neighbor's quadcopter. That would explain all the questions he had about
flying an RC airplane.



And you would be wrong. Again.

On 2/18/2015 8:45 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:43:23 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 8:22 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:03:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:11 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 14:47:49 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:

I'm not sure it's a good idea to encourage Johnny to try real flying.
If he has half the problems with a real plane as he does with his toy versions....Lord help the local folk.

You have to admit, it's kind of fun watching Krause and Eriksson 'gang up' on Herring
over something so ridiculous.

What a laugh!


Ganging up?

I told you that I am not knocking your RC flying hobby. It's fun for many.

You are the one who is trying to convince me and others that flying a RC
airplane is similar to real flying.

There are similarities. Period. That's all anyone here has said.

I think that ingrained pilot arrogance is rearing its ugly head.

Done for today. Sleep well.



I can more clearly understand why some consider you an asshole.
I wasn't looking for a fight nor was I boasting about having a pilot's
license. I acknowledged that I wasn't knocking your hobby and I
acknowledged that I am not a "natural" pilot and didn't particularly
find it relaxing or even fun.

Coulda fooled the **** right out of me!

You are the one who asked what the differences where. I tried to
present a few and you respond with the pilot arrogance thing.

It was not me who responded with the pilot arrogance thing, although I'll admit to
using the word later.


You remind me of an old lady sometimes. Amazing that you made it in the
Army for so long.

Good morning!

Some consider me an asshole because I'm assholish.


You are catching on.

On 2/18/2015 8:58 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 20:41:57 -0500, Wayne.B wrote:

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:10:34 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

This is really funny stuff...thanks, Luddite. And remember, driving
that RC boat in a swimming pool is just like driving a real boat through
a ferocious inlet. I mean, what's the difference?

===

What the heck would you know about driving a *real* boat through a
ferocious inlet? Really.

With regard to Dick's suggestion about taking a flying lesson, I
highly recommend it. Introductory lessons are usually priced at
reasonable rates and it will give you a taste of the real deal. You'll
find it quite interesting. My first lesson was in a Piper J3 tail
dragger with no doors or windows and controlled with a "stick".
It was about as basic as you can get short of an ultra light.

I'd like to find someone who would take me and a couple grandkids up in one of those
piper style airplanes.



Any flight school would be happy to accommodate you. In my check out
flight in the Piper Warrior my younger son and son-in-law were in the
back seat.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:44:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/18/2015 8:19 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot.

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.



A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you?



Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal
you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do.



For Christ's sake John, we are talking about model replicas of small,
recreational aircraft, not a F/A-18. I am not interested in your silly
arguments and comparisons. If you enjoy flying your RC airplane ...
have a ball. BTW ... in response to someone else's comment ... I
pursued and got my ticket years before I had much extra $$ to spend.
It was a dream I had since I was a little kid and I am very glad to have
accomplished it even though it turns out it was not something I wanted
to stay heavily involved in.


Sorry, Richard, but you're the one who made the bull**** statement:

" RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. "

I simply responded to it.
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.

On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/18/2015 11:19 AM, Stick Left-Steer Left wrote:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 11:10:31 -0500, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 2/18/2015 8:19 AM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 19:47:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 6:30 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:46:45 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/17/2015 12:44 PM, Abit Loco wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 20:35:18 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/16/2015 8:18 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:08:10 PM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/16/2015 6:31 PM, wrote:
On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 12:25:26 PM UTC-5, John H. wrote:

The big difference between simulators/real airplanes and RC airplanes - in sims or
real planes, the nose of the plane is in front of you. With an RC plane, at least
part of the time, the nose is pointed at you. That means the left and right controls
are reversed. This, I believe, is what causes the most problems, at least for me.

Another related difference is that pilots in a real plane has a seat of the pants, first person view. Not so with RC.

Something that helps newbies to RC is that when the airplane is flying towards you and the controls are reversed, your can turn your body so the transmitter is faced the same way as the plane, but look back over your shoulder at the plane. That way the stick moves to the right, the plane moves to the right. It's a crutch, but with some more stick time it'll come naturally.



I don't think there's much at all in common comparing RC flying and
flying a real airplane. Speed scale is totally different. Turns
and maneuvers are not anything close to being realistic to flying an
airplane.

I see it as a fun hobby for many but to compare it to actually flying
an airplane it isn't even close.

If you think about it, it's very similar. The same rules apply, the aircraft reacts the same way. RC planes can do things that real planes can't, but they also suffer from the fact that they don't fly quite the same way. Said another way, the air molecules are still the same size, while the wings and control surfaces of RC planes are far smaller. That's why truly scale RC planes don't tend to fly very well.

Good RC pilots can fly very realistically. I saw a jet done up in Fed-Ex colors being flown slowly and with coordinated turns. It looked very real, except for the size, although it was still large with about a 10 foot wingspan.

But while you may have not meant it, your attitude is common with "real" pilots. They think of RC planes as toys. And they crash them when they first try to fly them, thinking that if they can fly the real thing, they can fly the toy. They cannot.

Real pilots hope to walk away from a crash. RC pilots walk towards it!



I wasn't knocking RC flying. I know a lot of people enjoy it. I also
know a lot of people who think it's similar to actual flying (which it
isn't). As you point out the scale is totally different, the power to
weight ratio is different and the control surfaces behave differently.
I've tried a couple once in flight. You're right. I can land an
airplane but I'd crash an RC if I tried applying my flying instincts and
control.

Back when I was flying I used to play with whatever the current version
of Microsoft Flight Simulator was at the time. I had the yoke and pedal
controller set up. It was not exactly like flying but was pretty close
in many ways, especially how the wing surfaces reacted in the simulator.
Even more realistic when you added in a little "weather" and turbulence.
I think that was much closer to the "feel" of actually flying than a RC
plane can ever be.


Flight simulators such as Microsoft's have very, very little resemblance to RC
flying.

You keep saying its not similar to actual flying. How do the control surfaces behave
differently? What is the power to weight ration of the 'real' airplanes to which you
refer? Do RC airplanes have a lot more power to weight? Less?

Here are the motor specs for my motor:

Power 15 Brushless Outrunner Motor, 950Kv
Key Features

Equivalent to a 15-size glow engine for sport and scale airplanes weighing 36–56
oz (1020–1590 g)
Ideal for 3D airplanes weighing 32–40 oz (910–1135 g)
Ideal for models requiring up to 575 watts of power
High-torque, direct-drive alternative to inrunner brushless motors
Includes mount, prop adapters and mounting hardware
External rotor design—5mm shaft can easily be reversed for alternative motor
installations
Slotted 14-pole outrunner design
High-quality construction with ball bearings and hardened steel shaft

Here are my airplane specs:

Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE
Product Specifications
Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)

How does one compare the 'power to weight' ratio?

RC planes can climb faster than any comparable
"real" airplane. How fast can you climb? Pretty much like a rocket.
A real airplane doesn't climb like that and to try it would result in
a stall very quickly. A real airplane requires taking weight,
temperature, altitude and air density as factors. With RC flying, none
of those issues matter much.

Try flying a real airplane. Then you are qualified to judge and compare.

If I tried to climb vertically with the Apprentice, I'd be in a stall very quickly.
if the power is up it will do a loop, but not climb like the 3D planes discussed
earlier.

It's absolutely true that I don't worry much about temperature and air density as
factors. Weight and its distribution are important, as is altitude. Too high and I've
violated FCC regs and/or lost sight of the aircraft.

A real F/A-18 will probably climb faster than any of the scale RC aircraft and is
probably much faster. I've never seen any RC aircraft that could climb at 50,000
feet/min or fly 1000 mph, and that would include a scale RC F/A-18. But, maybe you
have.



A little sensitive about your newly found hobby, aren't you?



Do my comments about an F/A-18 sound sensitive? Or was that just the best rebuttal
you could come up with? You were the one telling us what real airplanes could not do.


I don't know why you two can't get along. It's not as if either one of
you is a Harry Krause type.

I'm trying to answer his questions as best I can. I'm thinking the RC aircraft he
flew was his neighbor's quadcopter. That would explain all the questions he had about
flying an RC airplane.



And you would be wrong. Again.


Well, if you've flown an RC airplane, why all the questions about take offs,
landings, taxiing, pre-flight checks, etc.

Seems like you'd know the answers.

I notice you didn't respond to the answers I gave you. But that's pretty much your
MO, isn't it?
--

Guns don't cause problems. The behavior
of certain gun owners causes problems.