If you thought...
 

In article ,
says...

On 1/12/13 2:20 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/12/2013 2:08 PM, thumper wrote:
On 1/12/2013 7:02 AM, Salmonbait wrote:

I should have said, "What did your sister expect when she allowed her
daughter to go on a weekend
trip with a Baptist church group - no religion?"

There's that binary thinking again. There's a difference between
presenting information in a comfortable environment and more intense
coercion involving threats. Baptists tend toward the latter from my
limited experience.


So you are speculating that this "brainwashing" actually happened,
pretty much because it fits in with your agenda... I get it..

A brainwash might do you some good, so long as you did it at a low temp
so you didn't have any more shrinkage. Might get rid of some of that
smut talk you like so much.

You can't wash what isn't there.

If you thought...
 

On 1/12/2013 2:28 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote:









On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote:

On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote:
I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in
Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was
planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or
maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were
heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous
Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along
church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera.

"Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were
Catholics?

"and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were
nurses, doctors, et cetera."

is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives?

" What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have
faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother
or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to
them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about
their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by
itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."

James 2:14-17

What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had
their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came
along and destroyed both.

Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for
proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong
to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will
give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours.

Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will
give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours."

That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no
idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things.

Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach
Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in
history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death.

Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing
the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your
right .

But you were making a point that there was some kind of a
'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing,
food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use
Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't
get the goods. There is non of that.

Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right .



Tim.. the only reason they are making up stories in the third person is
because not one of them can actually prove "religion is being shoved
down their throats". Remember, the devil is in the dishonest question..
the answers or truth are irrelevant. Remember Candy Crowley... the
narrative won over truth by a landslide...

If you thought...
 

On 1/12/2013 2:34 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 8:49 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote:









On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote:
On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote:

If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church
group. What the hell did she expect?

Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-)

Me. As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and
gatherings. had a lot of fun too.

?;^ )

And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'.

Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around!

Really?

Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times
a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two
"barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and
barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much
tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the
coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway.

Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking.

Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting
churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by
cramming religion down their throats.

Not good!!


What it sounds like is another harrytale... Anybody who has ever been to
a church dinner, or pretty much any real "club" dinner knows 99% of the
time, the food is prepared by folks who love what they do, and it's
great.... Unless of course the "club" sees harry coming and spits in his
food, which would not be a surprise at all. Either way, here we see
again a dishonest narrative leading to another red herring...

If you thought...
 

On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote:









On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote:

On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote:
I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in
Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was
planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or
maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were
heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous
Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along
church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera.

"Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were
Catholics?

"and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were
nurses, doctors, et cetera."

is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives?

" What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have
faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother
or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to
them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about
their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by
itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."

James 2:14-17

What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had
their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came
along and destroyed both.

Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for
proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong
to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will
give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours.

Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will
give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours."

That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no
idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things.

Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach
Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in
history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death.

Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing
the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your
right .

But you were making a point that there was some kind of a
'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing,
food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use
Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't
get the goods. There is non of that.

Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right .


You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case
with some missionaries in Central and South America.

If you thought...
 

On 1/12/13 2:34 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 8:49 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote:









On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote:
On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote:

If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church
group. What the hell did she expect?

Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-)

Me. As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and
gatherings. had a lot of fun too.

?;^ )

And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'.

Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around!

Really?

Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times
a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two
"barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and
barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much
tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the
coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway.

Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking.

Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting
churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by
cramming religion down their throats.

Not good!!


I don't believe the church in question has anything to do with
missionaries. You seem to think I object to religion. I don't. My
objection is to religion that tries to impose its beliefs on those who
either believe differently or don't believe at all. I have no objection
to the voluntary support of neighborhood religious organizations,
except, in this case, I don't think we'll be supporting their barbecues
again. I might try a cake/pie/cookie sale.

If you thought...
 

On 1/12/2013 11:20 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/12/2013 2:08 PM, thumper wrote:
On 1/12/2013 7:02 AM, Salmonbait wrote:

I should have said, "What did your sister expect when she allowed her
daughter to go on a weekend
trip with a Baptist church group - no religion?"

There's that binary thinking again. There's a difference between
presenting information in a comfortable environment and more intense
coercion involving threats. Baptists tend toward the latter from my
limited experience.


So you are speculating that this "brainwashing" actually happened,
pretty much because it fits in with your agenda... I get it..

Read this slowly.

I've experienced threatening coercion specifically from a Baptist youth
leader in rural Michigan. Accept Jesus as your personal savior or burn
in Hell for eternity. Do it now.

It does happen. It's not a situation I would place a young child in
without parental supervision.

If you thought...
 

In article , says...

On 1/12/2013 2:28 PM, Tim wrote:
On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote:









On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote:

On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote:
I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in
Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was
planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or
maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were
heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous
Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along
church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera.

"Indigenous Catholics?" And what were the indigenous before they were
Catholics?

"and, as bait, they were bringing along church members who were
nurses, doctors, et cetera."

is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives?

" What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have
faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother
or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to
them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about
their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by
itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."

James 2:14-17

What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had
their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came
along and destroyed both.

Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for
proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong
to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will
give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours.

Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will
give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours."

That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. I have no
idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things.

Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach
Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in
history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death.

Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing
the work of Christ. But if you feel to believe so, then that is your
right .

But you were making a point that there was some kind of a
'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing,
food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use
Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't
get the goods. There is non of that.

Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right .



Tim.. the only reason they are making up stories in the third person is
because not one of them can actually prove "religion is being shoved
down their throats". Remember, the devil is in the dishonest question..
the answers or truth are irrelevant. Remember Candy Crowley... the
narrative won over truth by a landslide...

Oh, man, Scotty talking about others making up stories in the third
person!!!!!! That is all that you present here as "fact". You never,
ever have anything rational to add.

If you thought...
 

In article , lid says...

On 1/12/2013 11:20 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/12/2013 2:08 PM, thumper wrote:
On 1/12/2013 7:02 AM, Salmonbait wrote:

I should have said, "What did your sister expect when she allowed her
daughter to go on a weekend
trip with a Baptist church group - no religion?"

There's that binary thinking again. There's a difference between
presenting information in a comfortable environment and more intense
coercion involving threats. Baptists tend toward the latter from my
limited experience.


So you are speculating that this "brainwashing" actually happened,
pretty much because it fits in with your agenda... I get it..

Read this slowly.

I've experienced threatening coercion specifically from a Baptist youth
leader in rural Michigan. Accept Jesus as your personal savior or burn
in Hell for eternity. Do it now.

It does happen. It's not a situation I would place a young child in
without parental supervision.

Damned right it does, those idiots are either in denial or lying.

If you thought...
 

On Jan 12, 2:13*pm, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 2:28 PM, Tim wrote:







On Jan 12, 7:54 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 8:44 AM, Tim wrote:

On Jan 12, 6:23 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 2:21 AM, Tim wrote:

On Jan 11, 2:27 pm, ESAD wrote:
I had in-laws who tried to pull that crap on me at a family gathering in
Florida. They were trying to hustle funds for a trip their church was
planning to take to somewhere in Central America to proselytize. Or
maybe it was South America. One or the other. Basically, they were
heading into some backwoods areas in attempts to convert indigenous
Catholics into Southern Baptists, and, as bait, they were bringing along
church members who were nurses, doctors, et cetera.

"Indigenous Catholics?" *And what were the indigenous before they were
Catholics?

"and, as bait, they were bringing along *church members who were
nurses, doctors, et cetera."

is it wrong to help people improve their health and their lives?

" What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have
faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? *Suppose a brother
or a sister is without clothes and daily food. *If one of you says to
them, Go in peace; keep warm and well fed, but does nothing about
their physical needs, what good is it? *In the same way, faith by
itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."

James 2:14-17

What were the indigenous peoples before they were catholics? They had
their own culture and their own religions *before* the Europeans came
along and destroyed both.

Interesting quote you provided...sort of a justification for
proselytizing and destroying a people and a culture. It's damned wrong
to go to some backwater area and offer help to people if only they will
give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours.

Harry I have no idea where you get the notion of " if only they will
* *give up their beliefs and culture to adopt yours."

That isn't written in the scripture, it isn't even applied. *I have no
idea why you feel you need to conjure up these things.

Really? What do evangelical missionaries do? Answer: they preach
Christianity to others with the object of conversion, and many times in
history those conversions were accomplished with the threat of death.

Yeah, a 'history of death'' by ungodly people under the guise of doing
the work of Christ. * But if you feel to believe so, then that is your
right .

* But you were making a point that there was some kind of a
'bargaining' that was to happen. like medical, shelter, clothing,
food, ...firewood. You give the impression that missionaries use
Christianity as some kind of a tool. You either convert, or you don't
get the goods. There is non of that.

Again, if you feel to believe so, then that is your right .

You either listen to the message or you get...nothing. That's the case
with some missionaries in Central and South America.

But you implied that it is ALL! Can you tell me of modern
missionaries that do this? Or is this simply a misconception you are
promoting?

If you thought...
 

On Jan 12, 2:16*pm, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 2:34 PM, Tim wrote:









On Jan 12, 8:49 am, ESAD wrote:
On 1/12/13 9:50 AM, Salmonbait wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jan 2013 23:26:58 -0800 (PST), Tim wrote:

On Jan 12, 12:31 am, thumper wrote:
On 1/11/2013 12:19 PM, Salmonbait wrote:

If your sister was more than a dunce, she would not have allowed your niece to go with a church
group. What the hell did she expect?

Exactly, what kind of idiot would trust a church group with a child? ;-)

Me. *As a kid, I attended lots of church functions, camps and
gatherings. had a lot of fun too.

?;^ )

And I'll bet your uncle didn't talk about your mom letting you go and get 'brainwashed'.

Hell, church picnics and potlucks were, and are, the best eatin' around!

Really?

Several of our local churches sell "churchlady" cooked food a few times
a year to raise funds. Perfectly legit. Last summer, we bought two
"barbecue" meals from one of those churches, barbecued chicken and
barbecued ribs. The chicken was overdone, dry, and pretty much
tasteless, the sauce on the ribs tasted like melted sugar, and the
coleslaw and potato salad came from Safeway.

Hardly "the best eatin' around," unless you like bad cooking.

Harry, by buying those meals, it sounds to me like you're supporting
churches who support missionaries Who want to convert others by
cramming religion down their throats.

Not good!!

I don't believe the church in question has anything to do with
missionaries. You seem to think I object to religion. I don't. My
objection is to religion that tries to impose its beliefs on those who
either believe differently or don't believe at all. I have no objection
to the voluntary support of neighborhood religious organizations,
except, in this case, I don't think we'll be supporting their barbecues
again. I might try a cake/pie/cookie sale.

I know of no 'church' that doesn't support missionaries, Harry.