On 12/30/2012 9:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 2:41 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 11:33:37 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

Anything structural, we would not use a helicoil at all.

I used a Helicoil for a crank cap on a Vega motor (in my Monza). I put
50,000 miles on it after that, no problems.


I know I just answered but I should note.. I wouldn't use it on a spark
plug on a race bike...

Probably better to use the helicoil than not have one.


I would really have to do the points math... 600 dollars and a few days
for a stock head... 4000 and weeks for parts if we grenade it.

"JustWait" wrote in message ...

On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:


It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.

There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal
or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the
engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician
tomorrow
at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!

----------------------------------------------------

Both statements are correct however to what degree is the issue. In
the case of the Ford V-10, some of the "repaired" heads using
heli-coils spit the spark plug out again after time with the failure
being the heli-coil to head interface. The benefit of being able to
remove the spark plug with less risk of taking part of the head with
it is valid, but as someone pointed out, these engines do not required
routine spark plug changes. This is what got Ford in some hot water,
meaning trying to place the blame on spark plug replacements. The
primary reason was the type of aluminum alloy used that weakened over
time due to heat cycles.

Aluminum is a unique material in the respect that it comes in many
different alloys and hardening techniques, depending on application.
The last I knew there were about 10-12 different alloys typically used
in industry and several different heat treating and aging techniques.
I became somewhat interested in this when I considered building a
large, aluminum vacuum chamber that would be routinely subjected to
very high side wall loads of about 29,000 lbs. Talking to
metallurgists and mechanical stress engineers convinced me that it
wasn't a good idea because the typical "61T6" alloy would weaken over
time. I am not a mechanical engineer nor a metallurgist, but
considering the liability risk, I decided to stick with stainless
steel.

JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 9:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 2:41 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 11:33:37 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

Anything structural, we would not use a helicoil at all.

I used a Helicoil for a crank cap on a Vega motor (in my Monza). I put
50,000 miles on it after that, no problems.


I know I just answered but I should note.. I wouldn't use it on a spark
plug on a race bike...

Probably better to use the helicoil than not have one.


I would really have to do the points math... 600 dollars and a few days
for a stock head... 4000 and weeks for parts if we grenade it.

A stripped out helicoil will not grenade the motor. And with a helicoil,
you probably have a stronger plug hole. Had to helicoil my Evenrude
snowmobile wankle engine plug and lasted the rest of the life of the sled.

On 12/30/12 9:44 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 8:54 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote:
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


There are ways, not ideal but there are ways to keep debris in the
cylinder to minimum, first is liberal use of grease on the tap.

-------------------------------------------------

I accidently dropped a small stainless steel lock washer into the
carburetor of a Fiat 850 Coupe we had years ago. It was supposed to go
under the wingnut that held the air filter cover on. It was dark, and
when I went to put the cover on, I heard a little "tink", tink, tink".
I didn't even think that it may have gone in the carb. Fired the engine
up and within just a few seconds of running it caused enough damage to
require the head to be removed and machined.

---------

I'll one up you. I raced a 64 Vette fuel injection B production in SCCA.
Somehow a spare spark plug bell in the injector manifold, probably when
setting upside down near the work bench. During practice that plug went
down one of the tubes. I guess the valves bounced it back up and by the
time I pulled off because the engine was running really rough, it had
bent
7 of the intake valves.


I was putting an engine together last year to sell a KX125, I dropped a
screw in it and didn't notice. Had to call the guy back and tell him he
couldn't buy the bike. Sold it in a basket for 700 a few weeks later.


For a guy who often claims here he was a master wrencher, you sure seem
to have been clumsy and sloppy. I'm not much of a mechanic, but I have
taken a few yard equipment engines apart in recent years, and I managed
to keep track of all the pieces and parts. I use muffin tins for the
smallest parts like screws, pins, keys, bearings, et cetera. Son of a
gun, when I put them back together, there were no parts left over and
none missing.

On 12/30/2012 10:45 PM, Califbill wrote:
JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 9:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 2:41 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 11:33:37 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

Anything structural, we would not use a helicoil at all.

I used a Helicoil for a crank cap on a Vega motor (in my Monza). I put
50,000 miles on it after that, no problems.


I know I just answered but I should note.. I wouldn't use it on a spark
plug on a race bike...

Probably better to use the helicoil than not have one.


I would really have to do the points math... 600 dollars and a few days
for a stock head... 4000 and weeks for parts if we grenade it.

A stripped out helicoil will not grenade the motor. And with a helicoil,
you probably have a stronger plug hole. Had to helicoil my Evenrude
snowmobile wankle engine plug and lasted the rest of the life of the sled.


Great, you put your kid on the bike at 60 mph with it.. I wouldn't use
one on the top part of the motor spacing is just too critical up there.

On Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:57:46 PM UTC-4, ESAD wrote:
On 12/30/12 9:44 PM, JustWait wrote:

On 12/30/2012 8:54 PM, Califbill wrote:

"Eisboch" wrote:

"iBoaterer" wrote in message

...





There are ways, not ideal but there are ways to keep debris in the

cylinder to minimum, first is liberal use of grease on the tap.

.

-------------------------------------------------

Yeah but...if you were jostling with the wife for space on the kitchen table at meal time...that can get distracting.



I accidently dropped a small stainless steel lock washer into the

carburetor of a Fiat 850 Coupe we had years ago. It was supposed to go

under the wingnut that held the air filter cover on. It was dark, and

when I went to put the cover on, I heard a little "tink", tink, tink".

I didn't even think that it may have gone in the carb. Fired the engine

up and within just a few seconds of running it caused enough damage to

require the head to be removed and machined.



---------



I'll one up you. I raced a 64 Vette fuel injection B production in SCCA.

Somehow a spare spark plug bell in the injector manifold, probably when

setting upside down near the work bench. During practice that plug went

down one of the tubes. I guess the valves bounced it back up and by the

time I pulled off because the engine was running really rough, it had

bent

7 of the intake valves.





I was putting an engine together last year to sell a KX125, I dropped a

screw in it and didn't notice. Had to call the guy back and tell him he

couldn't buy the bike. Sold it in a basket for 700 a few weeks later.





For a guy who often claims here he was a master wrencher, you sure seem

to have been clumsy and sloppy. I'm not much of a mechanic, but I have

taken a few yard equipment engines apart in recent years, and I managed

to keep track of all the pieces and parts. I use muffin tins for the

smallest parts like screws, pins, keys, bearings, et cetera. Son of a

gun, when I put them back together, there were no parts left over and

none missing.

For a guy who often claims here he was a master wrencher, you sure seem
to have been clumsy and sloppy. I'm not much of a mechanic, but I have
taken a few yard equipment engines apart in recent years, and I managed
to keep track of all the pieces and parts. I use muffin tins for the
smallest parts like screws, pins, keys, bearings, et cetera. Son of a
gun, when I put them back together, there were no parts left over and
none missing.
But; were you able to fix any of them?

In article , says...

On 12/30/2012 9:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 2:41 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 11:33:37 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

Anything structural, we would not use a helicoil at all.

I used a Helicoil for a crank cap on a Vega motor (in my Monza). I put
50,000 miles on it after that, no problems.


I know I just answered but I should note.. I wouldn't use it on a spark
plug on a race bike...

Probably better to use the helicoil than not have one.


I would really have to do the points math... 600 dollars and a few days
for a stock head... 4000 and weeks for parts if we grenade it.

/Why would you "grenade" it if you used a Helicoil??? If it failed, it
would simply blow the sparkplug out like it did before. You do realize
don't you, that structurally, a lot of "fixes" such as the helicoil can
be stronger than the original don't you?

In article , says...

On 12/30/2012 10:45 PM, Califbill wrote:
JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 9:17 PM, Califbill wrote:
JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 2:41 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 11:33:37 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

Anything structural, we would not use a helicoil at all.

I used a Helicoil for a crank cap on a Vega motor (in my Monza). I put
50,000 miles on it after that, no problems.


I know I just answered but I should note.. I wouldn't use it on a spark
plug on a race bike...

Probably better to use the helicoil than not have one.


I would really have to do the points math... 600 dollars and a few days
for a stock head... 4000 and weeks for parts if we grenade it.

A stripped out helicoil will not grenade the motor. And with a helicoil,
you probably have a stronger plug hole. Had to helicoil my Evenrude
snowmobile wankle engine plug and lasted the rest of the life of the sled.


Great, you put your kid on the bike at 60 mph with it.. I wouldn't use
one on the top part of the motor spacing is just too critical up there.

Okay, tell us, how will a failed Helicoil spark plug fix "grenade" the
engine???

In article , says...

On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...


Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical
surface of the threads, it's just math.

It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.

There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal
or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the
engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow
at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!

I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you
REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is
irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be
allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to
do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT
any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base
metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to
you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name
calling now.