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#482
posted to rec.boats
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Generator
In article , says...
On 12/31/2012 4:23 PM, Califbill wrote: iBoaterer wrote: In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote: On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical surface of the threads, it's just math. It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period. There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow at work and have him explain it to you, LOL! I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name calling now. The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a larger area. Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL. It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me. You are ignorant. The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger. He will find a way around it. We deal with folks like this all the time with the horses... The read something once and can mock understanding, but like harry with the Cross on Christmas, they really don't understand the higher principals... Just repeating the words... I don't have to find a way around it, you stupid fool. I can prove it mathematically. What the **** does "higher principals" have to do with metal fatigue and tensile strength? Get with Bill, round up all the money you want to bet and I'll show you two where you are wrong. |
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#483
posted to rec.boats
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Generator
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#484
posted to rec.boats
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Generator
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#485
posted to rec.boats
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Generator
iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says... On 12/31/2012 5:44 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:23:44 -0600, Califbill wrote: The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger. === Sounds right to me. The heli-coil is bigger than the plug so it has more contact area (gripping surface) with the aluminum head. All other things being equal, it should be stronger than the original. What I have been saying all along..  You are wrong. Once again, the base metal THICKNESS has not changed. the base metal thickness is what gives it X in tensile strength (or compressive strength for that matter, although here we are strictly in tension) Okay, now there is a cone of influence DIRECTLY proportionate to the thickness of the base metal. You only WEAKEN that base metal by enlarging the whole. The perfect cone of influence is a 45 degree angle, conical of course. IF that cone of influence doesn't fully develop because of a lack of thickness of base metal, then it's weaker than it could be. I doubt you and your dummies will get it, but I'm sure Wayne will. OK. Use this example. You use a 10-32 screw in a sheet of metal. Does not matter what material really. How much force to pull out that screw is required? Now, same piece of base material. Drill and tap for a 4"-32 screw. Install screw. How much force required to pull that screw loose? You should not make big bets without knowing the odds. Same principal if you welded on a pad-eye and increased the size of the pad. Takes more force to rip it loose. |
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#486
posted to rec.boats
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Generator
iBoaterer wrote:
In article 1703359288378681397.072595bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote: On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical surface of the threads, it's just math. It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period. There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow at work and have him explain it to you, LOL! I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name calling now. The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a larger area. Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL. It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me. You are ignorant. The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger. Would you care to wager? How much? FYI, you are leaving out one VERY important aspect which is easily mathematically proven. Prove it! |
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#487
posted to rec.boats
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Generator
In article 1444394091378758162.549500bmckeenospam-
, says... iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On 12/31/2012 5:44 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:23:44 -0600, Califbill wrote: The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger. === Sounds right to me. The heli-coil is bigger than the plug so it has more contact area (gripping surface) with the aluminum head. All other things being equal, it should be stronger than the original. What I have been saying all along.. You are wrong. Once again, the base metal THICKNESS has not changed. the base metal thickness is what gives it X in tensile strength (or compressive strength for that matter, although here we are strictly in tension) Okay, now there is a cone of influence DIRECTLY proportionate to the thickness of the base metal. You only WEAKEN that base metal by enlarging the whole. The perfect cone of influence is a 45 degree angle, conical of course. IF that cone of influence doesn't fully develop because of a lack of thickness of base metal, then it's weaker than it could be. I doubt you and your dummies will get it, but I'm sure Wayne will. OK. Use this example. You use a 10-32 screw in a sheet of metal. Does not matter what material really. How much force to pull out that screw is required? Now, same piece of base material. Drill and tap for a 4"-32 screw. Install screw. How much force required to pull that screw loose? You should not make big bets without knowing the odds. Same principal if you welded on a pad-eye and increased the size of the pad. Takes more force to rip it loose. You stupid old fool!!!! What *I* said was that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL... But, I WILL take the bet. What you are failing to understand, or know, or whatever, is the CONE OF INFLUENCE. Do some reading. And yes, it certainly DOES matter what the material is. Do you really think that the above screw would have the same tensile pull resistance in pot metal or case hardened A325 steel??? I guess then it would have the same resistance in plastic, too? Now, to your above example. What you are failing to grasp is that the base metal has a given shear resistance strength. That strength is DEPENDANT on the thickness of the threads. We know the threads per inch count is the same, therefore the tensile resistance is the same. You are confusing the bolt properties with the base material properties. |
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#488
posted to rec.boats
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Generator
In article 716738538378758079.121503bmckeenospam-
, says... iBoaterer wrote: In article 1703359288378681397.072595bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote: On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical surface of the threads, it's just math. It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period. There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow at work and have him explain it to you, LOL! I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name calling now. The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a larger area. Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL. It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me. You are ignorant. The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger. Would you care to wager? How much? FYI, you are leaving out one VERY important aspect which is easily mathematically proven. Prove it! Do you want to wager? I can EASILY "prove it". |
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#489
posted to rec.boats
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Generator
iBoaterer wrote:
In article 716738538378758079.121503bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article 1703359288378681397.072595bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote: On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical surface of the threads, it's just math. It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period. There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow at work and have him explain it to you, LOL! I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name calling now. The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a larger area. Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL. It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me. You are ignorant. The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger. Would you care to wager? How much? FYI, you are leaving out one VERY important aspect which is easily mathematically proven. Prove it! Do you want to wager? I can EASILY "prove it". Your wager would be as bad as any of your thoughts. |
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#490
posted to rec.boats
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Generator
iBoaterer wrote:
In article 1444394091378758162.549500bmckeenospam- , says... iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On 12/31/2012 5:44 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:23:44 -0600, Califbill wrote: The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger. === Sounds right to me. The heli-coil is bigger than the plug so it has more contact area (gripping surface) with the aluminum head. All other things being equal, it should be stronger than the original. What I have been saying all along.. You are wrong. Once again, the base metal THICKNESS has not changed. the base metal thickness is what gives it X in tensile strength (or compressive strength for that matter, although here we are strictly in tension) Okay, now there is a cone of influence DIRECTLY proportionate to the thickness of the base metal. You only WEAKEN that base metal by enlarging the whole. The perfect cone of influence is a 45 degree angle, conical of course. IF that cone of influence doesn't fully develop because of a lack of thickness of base metal, then it's weaker than it could be. I doubt you and your dummies will get it, but I'm sure Wayne will. OK. Use this example. You use a 10-32 screw in a sheet of metal. Does not matter what material really. How much force to pull out that screw is required? Now, same piece of base material. Drill and tap for a 4"-32 screw. Install screw. How much force required to pull that screw loose? You should not make big bets without knowing the odds. Same principal if you welded on a pad-eye and increased the size of the pad. Takes more force to rip it loose. You stupid old fool!!!! What *I* said was that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL... But, I WILL take the bet. What you are failing to understand, or know, or whatever, is the CONE OF INFLUENCE. Do some reading. And yes, it certainly DOES matter what the material is. Do you really think that the above screw would have the same tensile pull resistance in pot metal or case hardened A325 steel??? I guess then it would have the same resistance in plastic, too? Now, to your above example. What you are failing to grasp is that the base metal has a given shear resistance strength. That strength is DEPENDANT on the thickness of the threads. We know the threads per inch count is the same, therefore the tensile resistance is the same. You are confusing the bolt properties with the base material properties. What you are showing in your ignorance, is sure the base metal is the same and the thickness is the same. But if you had a 1/4" bolt, you would have to pull out Pi x 1/4" of metal the thickness of the threads. With a 4" bolt you would have pull out over 12" of metal the thickness of the threads. If it did not matter what the diameter of the screw was, you could always use the smallest screw possible. You must not have a mechanical engineering degree, or even be technology trained. You definitely do not have any common sense. |
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