In article ,
says...

"JustWait" wrote in message ...

On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:


It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.

There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal
or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the
engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician
tomorrow
at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!

----------------------------------------------------

Both statements are correct however to what degree is the issue. In
the case of the Ford V-10, some of the "repaired" heads using
heli-coils spit the spark plug out again after time with the failure
being the heli-coil to head interface. The benefit of being able to
remove the spark plug with less risk of taking part of the head with
it is valid, but as someone pointed out, these engines do not required
routine spark plug changes. This is what got Ford in some hot water,
meaning trying to place the blame on spark plug replacements. The
primary reason was the type of aluminum alloy used that weakened over
time due to heat cycles.

Aluminum is a unique material in the respect that it comes in many
different alloys and hardening techniques, depending on application.
The last I knew there were about 10-12 different alloys typically used
in industry and several different heat treating and aging techniques.
I became somewhat interested in this when I considered building a
large, aluminum vacuum chamber that would be routinely subjected to
very high side wall loads of about 29,000 lbs. Talking to
metallurgists and mechanical stress engineers convinced me that it
wasn't a good idea because the typical "61T6" alloy would weaken over
time. I am not a mechanical engineer nor a metallurgist, but
considering the liability risk, I decided to stick with stainless
steel.

Scotty doesn't get that the base metal is the part doing the holding.
While there is some more thread surface with the fix, it's not very
much. BUT, the fact remains, that the fix is no stronger than the base
metal, it is impossible for it to be. Same with welds. Most times, a
weld is far stronger than the base metals. Same rule applies. If the
weld is good for 50 ksi in tension and the steel that it is welded TO is
good for only 25 ksi, guess what the failure tension is? Correct, 25
ksi, why? because the connection is only as strong as the weakest
component.

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:57:46 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/30/12 9:44 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 8:54 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote:
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


There are ways, not ideal but there are ways to keep debris in the
cylinder to minimum, first is liberal use of grease on the tap.

-------------------------------------------------

I accidently dropped a small stainless steel lock washer into the
carburetor of a Fiat 850 Coupe we had years ago. It was supposed to go
under the wingnut that held the air filter cover on. It was dark, and
when I went to put the cover on, I heard a little "tink", tink, tink".
I didn't even think that it may have gone in the carb. Fired the engine
up and within just a few seconds of running it caused enough damage to
require the head to be removed and machined.

---------

I'll one up you. I raced a 64 Vette fuel injection B production in SCCA.
Somehow a spare spark plug bell in the injector manifold, probably when
setting upside down near the work bench. During practice that plug went
down one of the tubes. I guess the valves bounced it back up and by the
time I pulled off because the engine was running really rough, it had
bent
7 of the intake valves.


I was putting an engine together last year to sell a KX125, I dropped a
screw in it and didn't notice. Had to call the guy back and tell him he
couldn't buy the bike. Sold it in a basket for 700 a few weeks later.


For a guy who often claims here he was a master wrencher, you sure seem
to have been clumsy and sloppy. I'm not much of a mechanic, but I have
taken a few yard equipment engines apart in recent years, and I managed
to keep track of all the pieces and parts. I use muffin tins for the
smallest parts like screws, pins, keys, bearings, et cetera. Son of a
gun, when I put them back together, there were no parts left over and
none missing.

ESAD, you are absolutely the greatest at everything!

Hope you had a great Christmas Season and that your New Year is spectacular!

On 12/31/2012 2:21 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:57:46 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/30/12 9:44 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 8:54 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote:
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


There are ways, not ideal but there are ways to keep debris in the
cylinder to minimum, first is liberal use of grease on the tap.

-------------------------------------------------

I accidently dropped a small stainless steel lock washer into the
carburetor of a Fiat 850 Coupe we had years ago. It was supposed to go
under the wingnut that held the air filter cover on. It was dark, and
when I went to put the cover on, I heard a little "tink", tink, tink".
I didn't even think that it may have gone in the carb. Fired the engine
up and within just a few seconds of running it caused enough damage to
require the head to be removed and machined.

---------

I'll one up you. I raced a 64 Vette fuel injection B production in SCCA.
Somehow a spare spark plug bell in the injector manifold, probably when
setting upside down near the work bench. During practice that plug went
down one of the tubes. I guess the valves bounced it back up and by the
time I pulled off because the engine was running really rough, it had
bent
7 of the intake valves.


I was putting an engine together last year to sell a KX125, I dropped a
screw in it and didn't notice. Had to call the guy back and tell him he
couldn't buy the bike. Sold it in a basket for 700 a few weeks later.


For a guy who often claims here he was a master wrencher, you sure seem
to have been clumsy and sloppy. I'm not much of a mechanic, but I have
taken a few yard equipment engines apart in recent years, and I managed
to keep track of all the pieces and parts. I use muffin tins for the
smallest parts like screws, pins, keys, bearings, et cetera. Son of a
gun, when I put them back together, there were no parts left over and
none missing.

That's cause you don't do enough of them (if any lol), and certainly
don't do them under anywhere near the conditions we work under. And if
you don't have any parts left over you must suck. When you truly aspire
to master mechanic you are blessed with a little phenomenon called
"immaculate reproduction"... usually in the form of little baby metal
thingies...

ESAD, you are absolutely the greatest at everything!

He's just jealous cause my kids built their own boats and rebuilt their
own race machines before the age of 14.. and of course they being girls,
harry is even more offended...

Hope you had a great Christmas Season and that your New Year is spectacular!

iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...


Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical
surface of the threads, it's just math.

It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.

There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal
or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the
engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow
at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!

I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you
REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is
irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be
allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to
do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT
any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base
metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to
you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name
calling now.

The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal
strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a
larger area.

On 12/31/12 2:27 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/31/2012 2:21 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:57:46 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/30/12 9:44 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 8:54 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote:
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


There are ways, not ideal but there are ways to keep debris in the
cylinder to minimum, first is liberal use of grease on the tap.

-------------------------------------------------

I accidently dropped a small stainless steel lock washer into the
carburetor of a Fiat 850 Coupe we had years ago. It was supposed
to go
under the wingnut that held the air filter cover on. It was
dark, and
when I went to put the cover on, I heard a little "tink", tink,
tink".
I didn't even think that it may have gone in the carb. Fired the
engine
up and within just a few seconds of running it caused enough
damage to
require the head to be removed and machined.

---------

I'll one up you. I raced a 64 Vette fuel injection B production in
SCCA.
Somehow a spare spark plug bell in the injector manifold, probably
when
setting upside down near the work bench. During practice that plug
went
down one of the tubes. I guess the valves bounced it back up and
by the
time I pulled off because the engine was running really rough, it had
bent
7 of the intake valves.


I was putting an engine together last year to sell a KX125, I dropped a
screw in it and didn't notice. Had to call the guy back and tell him he
couldn't buy the bike. Sold it in a basket for 700 a few weeks later.


For a guy who often claims here he was a master wrencher, you sure seem
to have been clumsy and sloppy. I'm not much of a mechanic, but I have
taken a few yard equipment engines apart in recent years, and I managed
to keep track of all the pieces and parts. I use muffin tins for the
smallest parts like screws, pins, keys, bearings, et cetera. Son of a
gun, when I put them back together, there were no parts left over and
none missing.

That's cause you don't do enough of them (if any lol), and certainly
don't do them under anywhere near the conditions we work under. And if
you don't have any parts left over you must suck. When you truly aspire
to master mechanic you are blessed with a little phenomenon called
"immaculate reproduction"... usually in the form of little baby metal
thingies...

ESAD, you are absolutely the greatest at everything!

He's just jealous cause my kids built their own boats and rebuilt their
own race machines before the age of 14.. and of course they being girls,
harry is even more offended...

Hope you had a great Christmas Season and that your New Year is
spectacular!



As I said, I am not much of a mechanic, but when I do take a yard
equipment engine apart, I do keep track of the parts. The only parts
left over are the parts I've replaced.

Oh, there's *nothing* about your progeny that makes me jealous. I'm
perfectly happy with the intellectual, academic and career success of my
family members. Why you would think I would be "jealous" of a girl
motorbike racer is beyond me. What, exactly, is there to be jealous
of...that she's not going to college?

In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...


Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical
surface of the threads, it's just math.

It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.

There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal
or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the
engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow
at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!

I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you
REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is
irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be
allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to
do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT
any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base
metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to
you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name
calling now.

The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal
strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a
larger area.

Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL.
It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me.

In article ,
says...

On 12/31/12 2:27 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/31/2012 2:21 PM, GuzzisRule wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 22:57:46 -0500, ESAD wrote:

On 12/30/12 9:44 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/30/2012 8:54 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote:
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...


There are ways, not ideal but there are ways to keep debris in the
cylinder to minimum, first is liberal use of grease on the tap.

-------------------------------------------------

I accidently dropped a small stainless steel lock washer into the
carburetor of a Fiat 850 Coupe we had years ago. It was supposed
to go
under the wingnut that held the air filter cover on. It was
dark, and
when I went to put the cover on, I heard a little "tink", tink,
tink".
I didn't even think that it may have gone in the carb. Fired the
engine
up and within just a few seconds of running it caused enough
damage to
require the head to be removed and machined.

---------

I'll one up you. I raced a 64 Vette fuel injection B production in
SCCA.
Somehow a spare spark plug bell in the injector manifold, probably
when
setting upside down near the work bench. During practice that plug
went
down one of the tubes. I guess the valves bounced it back up and
by the
time I pulled off because the engine was running really rough, it had
bent
7 of the intake valves.


I was putting an engine together last year to sell a KX125, I dropped a
screw in it and didn't notice. Had to call the guy back and tell him he
couldn't buy the bike. Sold it in a basket for 700 a few weeks later.


For a guy who often claims here he was a master wrencher, you sure seem
to have been clumsy and sloppy. I'm not much of a mechanic, but I have
taken a few yard equipment engines apart in recent years, and I managed
to keep track of all the pieces and parts. I use muffin tins for the
smallest parts like screws, pins, keys, bearings, et cetera. Son of a
gun, when I put them back together, there were no parts left over and
none missing.

That's cause you don't do enough of them (if any lol), and certainly
don't do them under anywhere near the conditions we work under. And if
you don't have any parts left over you must suck. When you truly aspire
to master mechanic you are blessed with a little phenomenon called
"immaculate reproduction"... usually in the form of little baby metal
thingies...

ESAD, you are absolutely the greatest at everything!

He's just jealous cause my kids built their own boats and rebuilt their
own race machines before the age of 14.. and of course they being girls,
harry is even more offended...

Hope you had a great Christmas Season and that your New Year is
spectacular!



As I said, I am not much of a mechanic, but when I do take a yard
equipment engine apart, I do keep track of the parts. The only parts
left over are the parts I've replaced.

Oh, there's *nothing* about your progeny that makes me jealous. I'm
perfectly happy with the intellectual, academic and career success of my
family members. Why you would think I would be "jealous" of a girl
motorbike racer is beyond me. What, exactly, is there to be jealous
of...that she's not going to college?

Well, she's learned a lot from her dad, remember now, he talked about
sucking dicks in front of her.

iBoaterer wrote:
In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...


Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical
surface of the threads, it's just math.

It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.

There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal
or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the
engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow
at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!

I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you
REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is
irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be
allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to
do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT
any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base
metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to
you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name
calling now.

The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal
strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a
larger area.

Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL.
It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me.

You are ignorant. The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there
is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger.

On 12/31/2012 3:22 PM, Califbill wrote:
iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...


Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical
surface of the threads, it's just math.

It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.

There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal
or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the
engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow
at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!

I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you
REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is
irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be
allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to
do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT
any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base
metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to
you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name
calling now.

The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal
strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a
larger area.


It blows me away how folks don't "see" this... It's so obvious. And yes
to the line draftsman up there a couple paragraphs... NO, the thickness
and composition of the metal has no bearing on this conversation, it is
a constant dumbass... unless you start drilling enough to effect other
structural components of the part... Like I said. Get up from your desk
and walk out into the shop. Find a decent technician, mechanic, or any
machinist and have them explain it to you... I love it when folks go
overboard defending something they are obviously way out of their paygrade

wrote:
On Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:57:46 PM UTC-4, ESAD wrote:
On 12/30/12 9:44 PM, JustWait wrote:

On 12/30/2012 8:54 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote:
"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...
There are ways, not ideal but there are ways to keep debris in the
cylinder to minimum, first is liberal use of grease on the tap.
.
-------------------------------------------------
Yeah but...if you were jostling with the wife for space on the kitchen table at meal time...that can get distracting.
I accidently dropped a small stainless steel lock washer into the
carburetor of a Fiat 850 Coupe we had years ago. It was supposed to go
under the wingnut that held the air filter cover on. It was dark, and
when I went to put the cover on, I heard a little "tink", tink, tink".
I didn't even think that it may have gone in the carb. Fired the engine
up and within just a few seconds of running it caused enough damage to
require the head to be removed and machined.
---------
I'll one up you. I raced a 64 Vette fuel injection B production in SCCA.
Somehow a spare spark plug bell in the injector manifold, probably when
setting upside down near the work bench. During practice that plug went
down one of the tubes. I guess the valves bounced it back up and by the
time I pulled off because the engine was running really rough, it had
bent
7 of the intake valves.
I was putting an engine together last year to sell a KX125, I dropped a
screw in it and didn't notice. Had to call the guy back and tell him he
couldn't buy the bike. Sold it in a basket for 700 a few weeks later.




For a guy who often claims here he was a master wrencher, you sure seem

to have been clumsy and sloppy. I'm not much of a mechanic, but I have

taken a few yard equipment engines apart in recent years, and I managed

to keep track of all the pieces and parts. I use muffin tins for the

smallest parts like screws, pins, keys, bearings, et cetera. Son of a

gun, when I put them back together, there were no parts left over and

none missing.
Nice addition to your deadbeat boss's post or did you forget to type?