In article 832848077378768544.156850bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article 1444394091378758162.549500bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 12/31/2012 5:44 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:23:44 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there
is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger.

===

Sounds right to me. The heli-coil is bigger than the plug so it has
more contact area (gripping surface) with the aluminum head. All
other things being equal, it should be stronger than the original.


What I have been saying all along..

You are wrong. Once again, the base metal THICKNESS has not changed. the
base metal thickness is what gives it X in tensile strength (or
compressive strength for that matter, although here we are strictly in
tension) Okay, now there is a cone of influence DIRECTLY proportionate
to the thickness of the base metal. You only WEAKEN that base metal by
enlarging the whole. The perfect cone of influence is a 45 degree angle,
conical of course. IF that cone of influence doesn't fully develop
because of a lack of thickness of base metal, then it's weaker than it
could be. I doubt you and your dummies will get it, but I'm sure Wayne
will.

OK. Use this example. You use a 10-32 screw in a sheet of metal. Does
not matter what material really. How much force to pull out that screw is
required? Now, same piece of base material. Drill and tap for a 4"-32
screw. Install screw. How much force required to pull that screw loose?
You should not make big bets without knowing the odds. Same principal if
you welded on a pad-eye and increased the size of the pad. Takes more
force to rip it loose.

You stupid old fool!!!! What *I* said was that the fix is NO STRONGER
THAN THE BASE METAL... But, I WILL take the bet. What you are failing to
understand, or know, or whatever, is the CONE OF INFLUENCE. Do some
reading. And yes, it certainly DOES matter what the material is. Do you
really think that the above screw would have the same tensile pull
resistance in pot metal or case hardened A325 steel??? I guess then it
would have the same resistance in plastic, too?

Now, to your above example. What you are failing to grasp is that the
base metal has a given shear resistance strength. That strength is
DEPENDANT on the thickness of the threads. We know the threads per inch
count is the same, therefore the tensile resistance is the same. You are
confusing the bolt properties with the base material properties.

What you are showing in your ignorance, is sure the base metal is the same
and the thickness is the same. But if you had a 1/4" bolt, you would have
to pull out Pi x 1/4" of metal the thickness of the threads.

BULL****!!!!! YOUR ignorance is not knowing the fundamentals of tensile
strength of the base metal. Again, I don't give one little **** about
the threads. THAT is where you are stupid, I never said anything about
thread strength. I said that the base metal is what it is and it is only
has X amount of tensile force resistance. Then if you go and drill a
hole in it, the cone of influence now comes into play and unless the
base metal is thick enough to allow the cone of influence to widen to a
point equal or greater than the diameter of the hole it will only
weaken. The bigger the hole, the weaker.


With a 4"
bolt you would have pull out over 12" of metal the thickness of the
threads. If it did not matter what the diameter of the screw was, you
could always use the smallest screw possible. You must not have a
mechanical engineering degree, or even be technology trained. You
definitely do not have any common sense.

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article 1444394091378758162.549500bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 12/31/2012 5:44 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:23:44 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there
is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger.

===

Sounds right to me. The heli-coil is bigger than the plug so it
has
more contact area (gripping surface) with the aluminum head.
All
other things being equal, it should be stronger than the
original.


What I have been saying all along..

You are wrong. Once again, the base metal THICKNESS has not
changed. the
base metal thickness is what gives it X in tensile strength (or
compressive strength for that matter, although here we are
strictly in
tension) Okay, now there is a cone of influence DIRECTLY
proportionate
to the thickness of the base metal. You only WEAKEN that base
metal by
enlarging the whole. The perfect cone of influence is a 45 degree
angle,
conical of course. IF that cone of influence doesn't fully develop
because of a lack of thickness of base metal, then it's weaker
than it
could be. I doubt you and your dummies will get it, but I'm sure
Wayne
will.

OK. Use this example. You use a 10-32 screw in a sheet of metal.
Does
not matter what material really. How much force to pull out that
screw is
required? Now, same piece of base material. Drill and tap for a
4"-32
screw. Install screw. How much force required to pull that screw
loose?
You should not make big bets without knowing the odds. Same
principal if
you welded on a pad-eye and increased the size of the pad. Takes
more
force to rip it loose.

You stupid old fool!!!! What *I* said was that the fix is NO STRONGER
THAN THE BASE METAL... But, I WILL take the bet. What you are failing
to
understand, or know, or whatever, is the CONE OF INFLUENCE. Do some
reading. And yes, it certainly DOES matter what the material is. Do
you
really think that the above screw would have the same tensile pull
resistance in pot metal or case hardened A325 steel??? I guess then it
would have the same resistance in plastic, too?

Now, to your above example. What you are failing to grasp is that the
base metal has a given shear resistance strength. That strength is
DEPENDANT on the thickness of the threads. We know the threads per
inch
count is the same, therefore the tensile resistance is the same. You
are
confusing the bolt properties with the base material properties.

----------------------------------------

The design of the aluminum heads used where particularly thin in the
spark plug area. The spark plugs in question had a 3/4" long
threaded section, yet only 4 threads engaged in the head when properly
torqued. That, plus the use of an alloy that weakened with
repetitive heat cycles are the reason for the material failure. I am
not a mechanical or materials stress engineer, but I don't think the
minor extra "diameter" of a heli-coil makes any difference at all.
The problem is the thin heads with minimal threads in a weakened
alloy. A heli-coil doesn't add any additional threads.

The way I see it, the only "load" placed on the head by the spark
plug is the resultant torque stress from installing. Other than
that, the spark plugs don't place any additional stress load on the
head. What *does* impart a stress load is the compression cycle of
the cylinder.

It's noteworthy that a majority of the failures occurred when the
engine was under a heavier than normal load ... hauling or towing.
This would result in higher RPM, more localized heat and a higher
level of compression cycles.

It's also noteworthy that trucks with the heli-coil "fix" also
experienced failures. Some lasted 6 months. Some never blew again.
I think it depended on how the truck was used.

In article 234126224378768941.536224bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article 716738538378758079.121503bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article 1703359288378681397.072595bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam-
, says...

iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says...

On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...


Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical
surface of the threads, it's just math.

It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.

There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal
or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the
engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow
at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!

I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you
REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is
irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be
allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to
do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT
any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base
metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to
you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name
calling now.

The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal
strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a
larger area.

Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL.
It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me.

You are ignorant. The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there
is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger.

Would you care to wager? How much? FYI, you are leaving out one VERY
important aspect which is easily mathematically proven.

Prove it!

Do you want to wager? I can EASILY "prove it".

Your wager would be as bad as any of your thoughts.

Well, then, let's go for it!!! You name the price, anything above a
grand is great with me!

On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:42:24 AM UTC-4, iBoaterer wrote:
In article 234126224378768941.536224bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 716738538378758079.121503bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1703359288378681397.072595bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...



On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



In article , says...





Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical

surface of the threads, it's just math.



It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.



There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal

or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the

engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow

at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!



I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you

REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is

irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be

allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to

do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT

any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base

metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to

you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name

calling now.



The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal

strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a

larger area.



Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL.

It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me.



You are ignorant. The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there

is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger.



Would you care to wager? How much? FYI, you are leaving out one VERY

important aspect which is easily mathematically proven.



Prove it!



Do you want to wager? I can EASILY "prove it".



Your wager would be as bad as any of your thoughts.



Well, then, let's go for it!!! You name the price, anything above a

grand is great with me!

I'd bet $500 that you don't have a grand to cover that bet.

In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:42:24 AM UTC-4, iBoaterer wrote:
In article 234126224378768941.536224bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 716738538378758079.121503bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1703359288378681397.072595bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...



On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



In article , says...





Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical

surface of the threads, it's just math.



It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.



There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal

or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the

engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow

at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!



I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you

REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is

irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be

allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to

do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT

any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base

metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to

you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name

calling now.



The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal

strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a

larger area.



Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL.

It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me.



You are ignorant. The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there

is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger.



Would you care to wager? How much? FYI, you are leaving out one VERY

important aspect which is easily mathematically proven.



Prove it!



Do you want to wager? I can EASILY "prove it".



Your wager would be as bad as any of your thoughts.



Well, then, let's go for it!!! You name the price, anything above a

grand is great with me!

I'd bet $500 that you don't have a grand to cover that bet.

Okay! Let's do it!! Really, now Don, you proven over and over again that
you are way too cowardly to bet anything. You've said you'd bet several
times like above, only to back down like the chicken **** you are.

On 1/2/13 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:42:24 AM UTC-4, iBoaterer wrote:
In article 234126224378768941.536224bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 716738538378758079.121503bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1703359288378681397.072595bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...



On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



In article , says...





Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical

surface of the threads, it's just math.



It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.



There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal

or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the

engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow

at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!



I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you

REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is

irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be

allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to

do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT

any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base

metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to

you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name

calling now.



The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal

strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a

larger area.



Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL.

It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me.



You are ignorant. The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there

is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger.



Would you care to wager? How much? FYI, you are leaving out one VERY

important aspect which is easily mathematically proven.



Prove it!



Do you want to wager? I can EASILY "prove it".



Your wager would be as bad as any of your thoughts.



Well, then, let's go for it!!! You name the price, anything above a

grand is great with me!

I'd bet $500 that you don't have a grand to cover that bet.



When did Loogy start upping the ante to a grand?

In article ,
says...

On 1/2/13 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:42:24 AM UTC-4, iBoaterer wrote:
In article 234126224378768941.536224bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 716738538378758079.121503bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1703359288378681397.072595bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article 1507068199378670736.858223bmckeenospam-

, says...



iBoaterer wrote:

In article , says...



On 12/30/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 10:21:34 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:



In article , says...





Helicoil in anything adds substantial surface area to the mechanical

surface of the threads, it's just math.



It's still not any stronger than the base metal, period.



There is more surface as the hole is bigger, period. The type of metal

or the thickness is irrelevant, more is more... period. I knew the

engineer wouldn't know ****, take the question to a technician tomorrow

at work and have him explain it to you, LOL!



I don't give a **** if the hole is bigger or not, dumb ass. Are you

REALLY saying that the "type of metal or the thickness is

irrelevant"????? If so you are a complete fool and shouldn't ever be

allowed near anything mechanical. The base metal properties have ALL to

do with the strength that any set of threads can hold. The fix is NOT

any stronger than the base metal. How could it possibly be? The base

metal is doing the holding...... Would you care for me to prove it to

you mathematically? I'll bet you'll pull a Harry and start the name

calling now.



The fix should be stronger than the original hole and threads. Base metal

strength has not changed, but the Helicoil will spread the force over a

larger area.



Nope, what I said is that the fix is NO STRONGER THAN THE BASE METAL.

It's called yield strength, go study and get back to me.



You are ignorant. The fix is not stronger than the base metal, but there

is more base metal involved. Therefore the fix is stronger.



Would you care to wager? How much? FYI, you are leaving out one VERY

important aspect which is easily mathematically proven.



Prove it!



Do you want to wager? I can EASILY "prove it".



Your wager would be as bad as any of your thoughts.



Well, then, let's go for it!!! You name the price, anything above a

grand is great with me!

I'd bet $500 that you don't have a grand to cover that bet.



When did Loogy start upping the ante to a grand?

Now worries for you, everyone here knows you don't have the balls to
stand up for yourself. Well, now we know it's because you're so poor you
can't pay your taxes.

iBoaterer wrote:

I'd bet $500 that you don't have a grand to cover that bet.
Okay! Let's do it!! Really, now Don, you proven over and over again that
you are way too cowardly to bet anything. You've said you'd bet several
times like above, only to back down like the chicken **** you are.
Throw ten $100 bills on tomorrow's newspaper and post a photo to shut
him up. He will never pay, of course. Do you think his wife would let
him part with $500?

ESAD wrote:

I'd bet $500 that you don't have a grand to cover that bet.



When did Loogy start upping the ante to a grand?
What's the difference to you, deadbeat?

On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:06:29 PM UTC-4, Earl wrote:
iBoaterer wrote:



I'd bet $500 that you don't have a grand to cover that bet.

Okay! Let's do it!! Really, now Don, you proven over and over again that

you are way too cowardly to bet anything. You've said you'd bet several

times like above, only to back down like the chicken **** you are.

Throw ten $100 bills on tomorrow's newspaper and post a photo to shut

him up. He will never pay, of course. Do you think his wife would let

him part with $500?

Things slow on the counter, Dingy?
Bet you're hoping for an active hurricane season this year so you can sell a few more nails & screws..or even a hammer or two.