On 1/15/12 12:40 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:56:33 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.


Of course. Inflicting injury is part of boxing. Is it supposed to be a
part of football?

The 'legal' infliction of injury is suitable. The 'illegal' infliction is 'callous'.

Whew!


As I have stated several times, in boxing both parties enter the ring
knowing the other guy is pretty much hell-bent on knocking him out. Is
that also true in football?

Also, boxers are watched carefully for fouls. If they foul too many
times, they lose the match. If they go overboard, they are tossed out of
the sport. In football, a foul costs the team yardage. Football rules
are softer.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:52:29 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

Actually if you watch Mixed Martial Arts, very few of the victories are
by knockout. There is a lot to this Roman Greko (sp?) wrestling... quite
a science if you pay attention. I don't watch a lot of it though, dad
and I noticed that it really raises your heart rate, especially when the
two opponents are in a static fight for control... you almost hold your
breath till someone flinches. Decided it wasn't good for us...

If Tapout is one of the Mixed Martial Arts then I have watched a few bouts - maybe half dozen.
Agreed, I've never seen anyone knocked out. However, I've watched the face-elbowing, etc., when the
two opponents are locked together, and I've seen lots and lots of blood - and not just from the
nose.

To me it's somewhat overboard. But, one of my sons-in-law thinks it's great. He's big into jiu jitsu
(sp?) and some of the other martial arts.

On 1/15/12 12:28 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

Yeah, but Harry has already started the name calling.


A. I didn't call anyone here a name.
B. You seem intent on seeing what you can stir up.
C. I'm not playing your game and I hope no one else does, either.

Have nice day, as my Russian friends say.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:05:29 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:59 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more
drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're
likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung
out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

Nice day to sit back here and add a bit of rum to the Recovery Drink...

Speaking of drinks, I gave my wife a 'Sodastream' thing for Christmas. It actually works pretty
well, and the soda it makes is not bad at all. So far my favorite is diet Root Beer.

On 1/15/12 12:47 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:05:29 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 11:59 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more
drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're
likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung
out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

Nice day to sit back here and add a bit of rum to the Recovery Drink...

Speaking of drinks, I gave my wife a 'Sodastream' thing for Christmas. It actually works pretty
well, and the soda it makes is not bad at all. So far my favorite is diet Root Beer.


Is the syrup something you buy locally or do you have to order it? I've
not seen (nor have I been looking for) soda syrup at the local supermarket.

On 1/15/2012 12:40 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:56:33 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.


Of course. Inflicting injury is part of boxing. Is it supposed to be a
part of football?

The 'legal' infliction of injury is suitable. The 'illegal' infliction is 'callous'.

Whew!

You aren't the only one who doesn't understand his irrational thought
processes.

I do understand that he "loves" a sport where the only object of the
game is to beat the living crap out of the opponent. Ain't that sumptin?

On 1/15/2012 12:26 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In , dump-on-
says...

On 1/15/12 10:08 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:27 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 1/15/12 1:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:11:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school, will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

One of my neighbors was an NFL DE (Tom Nomina, Denver and Miami) and
he only played 2 seasons in the show plus high school and college. He
is suffering from a multitude of injuries (knee, back etc). These guys
get the crap beat out of them.
He is a great guy tho and still helps out in the community as much as
he can. Sometimes it is a little painful to watch.


Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged. Even professional
boxing is a more civilized sport, because you can be penalized or even
disqualified for certain actions. I have a friend who was an all-pro
linebacker for the 'Skins. I think he played 10 seasons. I never went to
see him play because I didn't want to see him sustain a horrific injury.
Fortunately, he got out without his brains being scrambled. Pro football
is a perfect metaphor for our callous society.

Perhaps discussions of your callous society belong in a political
forum. Pro football is trying to
clean up the purposeful head butting and has imposed some decent fines
and penalties therefore.

It's amazing how different the two opinions can be from one person who
watches and follows Football, and another who doesn't...


What happens to a motorcycle racer in your daughter's sport who
deliberately drives in a fashion that causes accidents and injuries to
the other racers? My guess is that he or she would be tossed, either for
a season or permanently. These sports are dangerous enough without
having "players" who are out there deliberately trying to injure other
participants.

How did you ever get through your youth without doing anything remotely
"dangerous"?
Mommy forbid it?

On 1/15/2012 11:43 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:50:36 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.

That wouldn't bother me! There are a few other 'sports' where injury is the goal, like 'tapout' that
could be dropped from the list of 'sports' also.

What is tapout?

On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:11 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:50:22 -0500, X `
wrote:

A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

===

With all due respect, that's nonsense. There certainly is fan
appreciation for good clean hits and empathy for the recipient, but
that is quite different from what you believe.


I hope you are right about this and I am wrong.

Wouldn't be the first time.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:44:57 -0500, X ` Man wrote:

On 1/15/12 12:40 PM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:56:33 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.


Of course. Inflicting injury is part of boxing. Is it supposed to be a
part of football?

The 'legal' infliction of injury is suitable. The 'illegal' infliction is 'callous'.

Whew!


As I have stated several times, in boxing both parties enter the ring
knowing the other guy is pretty much hell-bent on knocking him out. Is
that also true in football?

Also, boxers are watched carefully for fouls. If they foul too many
times, they lose the match. If they go overboard, they are tossed out of
the sport. In football, a foul costs the team yardage. Football rules
are softer.


You need to relearn some of the rules, penalties, costs of personal fouls, etc. in pro football.
Yardage is the least of the costs.

Whether legal or illegal, your stance on personal injuries is quite inconsistent. Holding this view,
"The 'legal' infliction of injury is suitable. The 'illegal' infliction is 'callous'," seems quite
illogical.

Enough on the subject.