On 1/15/2012 10:03 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:53:50 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 9:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:41:05 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 9:27 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 1:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:11:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500, wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school, will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

One of my neighbors was an NFL DE (Tom Nomina, Denver and Miami) and
he only played 2 seasons in the show plus high school and college. He
is suffering from a multitude of injuries (knee, back etc). These guys
get the crap beat out of them.
He is a great guy tho and still helps out in the community as much as
he can. Sometimes it is a little painful to watch.


Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged. Even professional
boxing is a more civilized sport, because you can be penalized or even
disqualified for certain actions. I have a friend who was an all-pro
linebacker for the 'Skins. I think he played 10 seasons. I never went to
see him play because I didn't want to see him sustain a horrific injury.
Fortunately, he got out without his brains being scrambled. Pro football
is a perfect metaphor for our callous society.

Perhaps discussions of your callous society belong in a political forum. Pro football is trying to
clean up the purposeful head butting and has imposed some decent fines and penalties therefore.


My response was not political, nor is the term callous intrinsically
political.

If football wants to clean up its image, it'll take seriously the idea
of long suspensions from the sport of players who deliberately try to
injure other players, and heavy fines against team owners who tolerate
over the top roughness on the part of their players. Of course, bringing
down the level of violence will cut into the pro game's popularity and
revenues.

Football is a rough enough sport when `played in a sportsmanlike fashion.

Watch a few professional soccer games. Then come back and discuss 'our callous society'.


I doubt I could sit through any professional soccer game...the sport
bores me. For popular team sports, I prefer baseball and basketball and
track and field. I understand the appeal of football to its fans. I'm
just not a fan, and never have been.

And thus you limit your unsportsmanlike conduct to 'our callous society'.

Well, in this case you're quite wrong.

If you want to see great sports, you all should have watched the AMA
Supercross from Phoenix Last night... All action, no goons fighting...

On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

On 1/15/12 10:08 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:27 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 1/15/12 1:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:11:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school, will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

One of my neighbors was an NFL DE (Tom Nomina, Denver and Miami) and
he only played 2 seasons in the show plus high school and college. He
is suffering from a multitude of injuries (knee, back etc). These guys
get the crap beat out of them.
He is a great guy tho and still helps out in the community as much as
he can. Sometimes it is a little painful to watch.


Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged. Even professional
boxing is a more civilized sport, because you can be penalized or even
disqualified for certain actions. I have a friend who was an all-pro
linebacker for the 'Skins. I think he played 10 seasons. I never went to
see him play because I didn't want to see him sustain a horrific injury.
Fortunately, he got out without his brains being scrambled. Pro football
is a perfect metaphor for our callous society.

Perhaps discussions of your callous society belong in a political
forum. Pro football is trying to
clean up the purposeful head butting and has imposed some decent fines
and penalties therefore.

It's amazing how different the two opinions can be from one person who
watches and follows Football, and another who doesn't...


What happens to a motorcycle racer in your daughter's sport who
deliberately drives in a fashion that causes accidents and injuries to
the other racers? My guess is that he or she would be tossed, either for
a season or permanently. These sports are dangerous enough without
having "players" who are out there deliberately trying to injure other
participants.

On 1/15/2012 10:00 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

Speak for yourself.

Exactly...

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:06:20 -0500, X ` Man wrote:

On 1/15/12 9:57 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:50:22 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500, wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school, will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

Fine, but be honest. The attraction of seeing players beat the crap out of each other is not limited
to *our society*. Check out rugby, soccer, Australian football, or any of the other sports
activities from societies other than *ours*.

I suppose the Chinese, and their ping-pong, are fairly 'uncallous' activities.


I won't argue that our pro football is the only sport in which the
players deliberately try to seriously injure the opposing players,
but...I don't watch those sorts of sports, whatever they are. I did,
however, state that I like professional boxing, but even in that
obviously blood sport, there are rules that usually are strictly
enforced and, if you break them, you'll likely lose the match through
disqualification and possibly your license to box again.

That sort of oversight should be applied to professional football.
Deliberately try to injure another player, you're out of the game. Do it
repeatedly and you're banned from the game.

I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

Perhaps your comment 'our callous society' wasn't quite justified? Perhaps you meant to say
'mankind's callousness'?

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:11:38 -0500, JustWait wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:03 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:53:50 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 9:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:41:05 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 9:27 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 1:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:11:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500, wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school, will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

One of my neighbors was an NFL DE (Tom Nomina, Denver and Miami) and
he only played 2 seasons in the show plus high school and college. He
is suffering from a multitude of injuries (knee, back etc). These guys
get the crap beat out of them.
He is a great guy tho and still helps out in the community as much as
he can. Sometimes it is a little painful to watch.


Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged. Even professional
boxing is a more civilized sport, because you can be penalized or even
disqualified for certain actions. I have a friend who was an all-pro
linebacker for the 'Skins. I think he played 10 seasons. I never went to
see him play because I didn't want to see him sustain a horrific injury.
Fortunately, he got out without his brains being scrambled. Pro football
is a perfect metaphor for our callous society.

Perhaps discussions of your callous society belong in a political forum. Pro football is trying to
clean up the purposeful head butting and has imposed some decent fines and penalties therefore.


My response was not political, nor is the term callous intrinsically
political.

If football wants to clean up its image, it'll take seriously the idea
of long suspensions from the sport of players who deliberately try to
injure other players, and heavy fines against team owners who tolerate
over the top roughness on the part of their players. Of course, bringing
down the level of violence will cut into the pro game's popularity and
revenues.

Football is a rough enough sport when `played in a sportsmanlike fashion.

Watch a few professional soccer games. Then come back and discuss 'our callous society'.


I doubt I could sit through any professional soccer game...the sport
bores me. For popular team sports, I prefer baseball and basketball and
track and field. I understand the appeal of football to its fans. I'm
just not a fan, and never have been.

And thus you limit your unsportsmanlike conduct to 'our callous society'.

Well, in this case you're quite wrong.

If you want to see great sports, you all should have watched the AMA
Supercross from Phoenix Last night... All action, no goons fighting...

I missed last night's, but watched quite a bit on Speed channel for the past few days. Amazing
riders!

On 1/15/2012 10:23 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:11:38 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 10:03 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:53:50 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 9:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:41:05 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 9:27 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 1:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:11:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500, wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school, will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

One of my neighbors was an NFL DE (Tom Nomina, Denver and Miami) and
he only played 2 seasons in the show plus high school and college. He
is suffering from a multitude of injuries (knee, back etc). These guys
get the crap beat out of them.
He is a great guy tho and still helps out in the community as much as
he can. Sometimes it is a little painful to watch.


Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged. Even professional
boxing is a more civilized sport, because you can be penalized or even
disqualified for certain actions. I have a friend who was an all-pro
linebacker for the 'Skins. I think he played 10 seasons. I never went to
see him play because I didn't want to see him sustain a horrific injury.
Fortunately, he got out without his brains being scrambled. Pro football
is a perfect metaphor for our callous society.

Perhaps discussions of your callous society belong in a political forum. Pro football is trying to
clean up the purposeful head butting and has imposed some decent fines and penalties therefore.


My response was not political, nor is the term callous intrinsically
political.

If football wants to clean up its image, it'll take seriously the idea
of long suspensions from the sport of players who deliberately try to
injure other players, and heavy fines against team owners who tolerate
over the top roughness on the part of their players. Of course, bringing
down the level of violence will cut into the pro game's popularity and
revenues.

Football is a rough enough sport when `played in a sportsmanlike fashion.

Watch a few professional soccer games. Then come back and discuss 'our callous society'.


I doubt I could sit through any professional soccer game...the sport
bores me. For popular team sports, I prefer baseball and basketball and
track and field. I understand the appeal of football to its fans. I'm
just not a fan, and never have been.

And thus you limit your unsportsmanlike conduct to 'our callous society'.

Well, in this case you're quite wrong.

If you want to see great sports, you all should have watched the AMA
Supercross from Phoenix Last night... All action, no goons fighting...

I missed last night's, but watched quite a bit on Speed channel for the past few days. Amazing
riders!

I always love the back stories on these kids too... These are truly
great kids with great families..

On 1/15/2012 10:06 AM, X ` Man wrote:



I won't argue that our pro football is the only sport in which the
players deliberately try to seriously injure the opposing players,
but...I don't watch those sorts of sports, whatever they are. I did,
however, state that I like professional boxing, but even in that
obviously blood sport, there are rules that usually are strictly
enforced and, if you break them, you'll likely lose the match through
disqualification and possibly your license to box again.

Are there rules in boxing that are designed to prevent the infliction of
all serious injury or even death?

Boxing in all of it's forms is the only true blood sport as far as I am
concerned. Now, if you want to include animals, you can add hunting,
fishing, dog fighting etc. to the list

On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

On 1/15/2012 10:16 AM, Happy John wrote:


I agree that strong penalties should be given to *anyone* in *any* sport who deliberately tries to
injure another player. American professional football happens to be *one* sport among *many* in
which such activities occur.

This implies that boxing should be banished from the sporting world. And
I agree with that.