On 1/15/12 11:46 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:53:13 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 10:04 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 10:00:47 -0500, wrote:

On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

Speak for yourself.

He most surely is.

Since I don't watch pro football, it isn't logical to claim I am
attracted to seeing its players beat the crap out of each other.

Since you don't watch pro football, your claim, "...A big part of the attraction is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other..." isn't supportable.


Oh, it's hard to miss the highlights, and occasionally, while waiting
for 60 Minutes which typically is delayed by football, I see a little of
it. I don't tune in football, though.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:21:49 -0500, X ` Man wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:11 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:50:22 -0500, X `
wrote:

A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

===

With all due respect, that's nonsense. There certainly is fan
appreciation for good clean hits and empathy for the recipient, but
that is quite different from what you believe.


I hope you are right about this and I am wrong.

You'll hear a lot more yelling and screaming when a touchdown is made than when an illegal hit is
made. You'll also hear announcers praising well-done plays and condemning many of the illegal hits.

On 1/15/12 11:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.


Of course. Inflicting injury is part of boxing. Is it supposed to be a
part of football?

On 1/15/2012 11:11 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:50:22 -0500, X `
wrote:

A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.

===

With all due respect, that's nonsense. There certainly is fan
appreciation for good clean hits and empathy for the recipient, but
that is quite different from what you believe.


I have been a race fan all my life... I can honestly say I get up on my
feet and clench my cheeks during a great pass or hard fight, but not
during wrecks... I don't and never have watched racing for wrecks, just
like I don't watch football for hits, and I don't watch cage fighting
for hits either. I love watching a team or individual work their way to
victory... It's the science of the sports I love.

For instance, never cared for baseball at all but during World Series
games a few years back watching with my dad, I was fascinated by the
decisions and gamesmanship of the coach near the end of the game.. Can't
even tell you who won, but I remember the coach changing pitchers,
batters, runners.. etc.. It was very cool. I have probably never sat and
watched an entire basketball game but when I do see them play I am
amazed by the athletic ability of those big dudes...

On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

On 1/15/2012 11:59 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more
drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're
likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung
out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

Nice day to sit back here and add a bit of rum to the Recovery Drink...

On 1/15/12 12:05 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 11:59 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 11:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm,
wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of
these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same
question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able
would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at
least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life.
It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are
attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more
drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're
likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung
out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

No problem.

Besides, I've got a new weapon of choice, a holiday gift, a VitaMix. So
far, I've managed to keep my fingers out of its whirling blades.

Nice day to sit back here and add a bit of rum to the Recovery Drink...

My friend in Orange (suburb of New Haven) emailed me earlier that it was
then about 10F, and the wind chill made it feel even worse. A good
excuse for a hot rum drink, if ever there was one. She and her hubby,
also an old friend, are busy prepping for the Giants-Packers showdown
later today.

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 1/15/12 10:08 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:27 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

On 1/15/12 1:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 21:11:23 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high
school, will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

One of my neighbors was an NFL DE (Tom Nomina, Denver and Miami) and
he only played 2 seasons in the show plus high school and college. He
is suffering from a multitude of injuries (knee, back etc). These guys
get the crap beat out of them.
He is a great guy tho and still helps out in the community as much as
he can. Sometimes it is a little painful to watch.


Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged. Even professional
boxing is a more civilized sport, because you can be penalized or even
disqualified for certain actions. I have a friend who was an all-pro
linebacker for the 'Skins. I think he played 10 seasons. I never went to
see him play because I didn't want to see him sustain a horrific injury.
Fortunately, he got out without his brains being scrambled. Pro football
is a perfect metaphor for our callous society.

Perhaps discussions of your callous society belong in a political
forum. Pro football is trying to
clean up the purposeful head butting and has imposed some decent fines
and penalties therefore.

It's amazing how different the two opinions can be from one person who
watches and follows Football, and another who doesn't...


What happens to a motorcycle racer in your daughter's sport who
deliberately drives in a fashion that causes accidents and injuries to
the other racers? My guess is that he or she would be tossed, either for
a season or permanently. These sports are dangerous enough without
having "players" who are out there deliberately trying to injure other
participants.

How did you ever get through your youth without doing anything remotely
"dangerous"?

In article ,
says...

On 1/15/2012 10:46 AM, Oscar wrote:
On 1/15/2012 10:13 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 1/15/2012 9:50 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 1/15/12 9:34 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In articleaf13b6ee-0a8e-4926-b74a-86fc9f7af0f9
@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 14, 10:07 pm, wrote:
On 1/14/2012 10:52 PM, Earl wrote:

Happy John wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 20:39:31 -0500,
wrote:

X ` Man wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK9TP...&feature=share
Amazing performance but she will probably need knee and hip
surgery
before she's 50.
As my younger daughter, a cheerleader and gymnast in high school,
will
attest. She goes in for her
hip surgery in about a week.
That's a rough sport.

I met an NFL alum that played in the Super Bowl and he could
hardly walk
at 44 years old.

Wonder if he had any regrets...

Several years ago, there was a documentary done on the likes of these
guys. Some were in wheel chairs. They were asked the same question,
and ironically most said they had no regrets at all and if able would
'do it again'

Winning and being productive is ingrained in the human psych, at least
for most!

Survival is the basic instinct of humans all else flows from that.


Pro football's "bloodthirst" is hardly a metaphor for human life. It's
just a game, nothing more. Unfortunately, many of its fans are attracted
by its brutality and are willing to pay for their bloodlust.

Professional car racing is also a bloodsport and I'd guess more drivers
are killed each year than football players. But...if you are a driver
and you deliberately cause injuries to another driver, you're likely to
be suspended from the sport or tossed out entirely.

Let's be honest here. A big part of the attraction of football is the
likelihood of seeing over-steroided players beat the crap out of each
other, with the chance of seeing several carried off the field with
serious injuries.


You being a non-participant and non-fan makes for a very wrong view of
the spectators of both Racing and Football. Maybe the thugs you hung out
with liked to see just the smashing of bodies and metal, but most real
fans don't....

Can we do this without personal attacks?

apologies to Harry... my bad....

Yeah, but Harry has already started the name calling.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:56:33 -0500, X ` Man wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:48 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 11:08:36 -0500, X ` wrote:

On 1/15/12 11:03 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:17:07 -0500, X `
wrote:

Pro football has deteriorated into a gladiator sport where deliberately
inflicting injuries on opposing players is encouraged.

===

That was true even at the high school level back in the 60s. It seems
to be a part of the game that isn't talked about very much except in
the locker room. Hockey also but it has always been more overt.


I'm sure you're right. But I do remember our high school coach tossing a
"star" player off the team because he used his knees to land on the
chest/stomach of an opposing player. He was gone from the team as soon
as the whistle blew.

I don't have any problems justifying my love of boxing with my disdain
for football. Pro boxers know going into the ring that injuries are
common and likely, and that the cardinal rule is to "defend yourself at
all times." A good referee will heavily penalize a boxer who does not
conduct himself appropriately, and the boxing commission will ban a
boxer who refuses to play by the rules. Somehow a 10-yard-penalty for
deliberately kneeing another player in the neck seems inappropriate.

But, let's agree that a boxer's purpose is to inflict injury on his opponent. I cannot see how
purposeful injury is 'good' in one sport and 'callous' in another.

Litle consistency there.


Of course. Inflicting injury is part of boxing. Is it supposed to be a
part of football?

The 'legal' infliction of injury is suitable. The 'illegal' infliction is 'callous'.

Whew!