On 4/18/10 1:45 PM, Peter (Yes, that one) wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:41:09 -0500, "Peter (Yes, that one)"
wrote:

You seem to think what was recently passed is the be-all and end-all. It
isn't.

I believe you are right.
As different parts of the health care bill go into effect, pricing will
change due to market forces and tax burden.
I see this in the shoe business all the time.
The marketplace at work.
It is as old as humanity.


I just think this bill is trying to shove a size 12 foot into a size 7
shoe. It was designed to fail and it will.

We'll see. Much will depend on design and marketing.
Air Jordans have become more affordable over the years, while
maintaining quality.
I love that shoe.
OTOH, you couldn't give the original Earth Shoes away.
We quit offering them long ago.
No matter what the claimed orthopedic advantage (still disputed)
customers were immediately turned off by their appearance.
Who wants to walk uphill all the time?

Peter


If you are referring to the original Kalso Earth Shoes, I thought the
company that produced them was long, long gone. I owned a pair of Kalso
Earth Boots, and I thought they were terrific. They were good sellers in
markets where literacy was high.

BTW, which long-time poster here are you really?



--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

On 4/18/10 1:53 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 13:32:15 -0400,
wrote:

On 4/18/10 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:04:35 -0400,
wrote:


You seem to think what was recently passed is the be-all and end-all. It
isn't.

To the contrary,
I doubt it was much more than a symbolic victory for the Democrats.
If anything it is part of a long term plan to destroy the insurance
industry and substitute that public plan the democrats want. The only
problem with that idea is we would then have to bail out insurance
company workers. Nobody really wants to cut into 17% of the economy,
no matter how hard they rail against it.

I am entirely in favor of destroying the health insurance industry, and
replacing it with a system whose primary consideration is the best
outcome for patients.


There you go. ;-)

So much for "you can keep your existing plan" huh?


Why? What *I* favor and what our political system will allow, in
health care insurance, are hardly the same thing. Frankly, I think the
plan I have is pretty good; the shame is that it isn't available to most
Americans. How it would be paid for if it were universal is an entirely
separate discussion.



--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

In article ,
says...

On 4/18/10 1:45 PM, Peter (Yes, that one) wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:41:09 -0500, "Peter (Yes, that one)"
wrote:

You seem to think what was recently passed is the be-all and end-all. It
isn't.

I believe you are right.
As different parts of the health care bill go into effect, pricing will
change due to market forces and tax burden.
I see this in the shoe business all the time.
The marketplace at work.
It is as old as humanity.


I just think this bill is trying to shove a size 12 foot into a size 7
shoe. It was designed to fail and it will.

We'll see. Much will depend on design and marketing.
Air Jordans have become more affordable over the years, while
maintaining quality.
I love that shoe.
OTOH, you couldn't give the original Earth Shoes away.
We quit offering them long ago.
No matter what the claimed orthopedic advantage (still disputed)
customers were immediately turned off by their appearance.
Who wants to walk uphill all the time?

Peter


If you are referring to the original Kalso Earth Shoes, I thought the
company that produced them was long, long gone. I owned a pair of Kalso
Earth Boots, and I thought they were terrific. They were good sellers in
markets where literacy was high.

BTW, which long-time poster here are you really?

Mr. HK, I only recently stumbled upon this newsgroup.
Perhaps you missed my posting of who I am, and my family history.
I don't know if Kalso still exists as the original company, but I did
carry their Earth shoes in a few flavors many years ago.
They bombed severely.
That store had typical middle and working class clientèle.
I thought them literate enough.
But I do not test my customers in any way, except for what can lead me
to fit them with a shoe that will make them happy.
That, my friend, is the secret of sales success.
Respect your customer, and do right by them.
By the way, I actually still move penny loafers, even those of
relatively low quality.
Earth shoes? Sold 3 pairs in a full year of display.
Actually had browsers in the mall stop by to laugh at them.
I felt I was working in the "Scotch Tape Boutique," if you happen to be
familiar with that SNL skit.
I was quite happy when we dropped that line.

Peter

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 13:44:09 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 13:11:09 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

How will that happen? He did absolutely nothing to reduce costs.

sure he did. he reduced medicare costs, brought the uninsured into the
system, reducing their tendency to use emergency rooms as family
physicians, etc


Where do you think they will go now?
There are not enough family physicians to absorb that many new
patients.

sure there are. there are now plans underway to license RNP's, PA's
etc. to work under a doctor's supervision to take much of the burden
off dirs

and here in PA they just started a medical school in scranton...there
are several others underway

your preference seems to be let 'em die. typical right winger


and objective economists have shown that his program reduces the
deficit, or is deficit neutral, over the next decade

That assumes a lot of things that may never happen. If something was
relegated to the out years it may change. This bill changed
significantly within days of it's passage, remember the
"reconciliation"? If you think they will really cut Medicare by $300
billion you are not paying attention. A lot of the cost was simply
shifted to the states who are broke now.

Even if nothing happened, when has CBO actually been right? They said
the Iraq war was only going to cost $50 billion, you have it at a
trillion.

fine. let's wait and see. right now the economy is growing,
unemployment is coming down, wall street is up and there are plans to
regulate the excesses of wall street.

much more than bush ever did.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 13:52:18 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 13:21:34 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 11:57:27 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 08:16:47 -0400, bpuharic wrote:

obama care will reduce costs,


Like this?
http://www.news-press.com/article/20...et-big-pay-day

see chart 1 he

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa...43&emailView=1

That all assumes we do what we told CBO we would do.

so why should we believe your right wing assumptions when, if you were
right, we wouldnt even be HAVING this discussion?

That never happens. CBO makes projections based on the fairy tale
congress tells them.
They have never been right.

nor has milton friedman.

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 13:14:04 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:04:35 -0400, hk
wrote:

On 4/18/10 11:54 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 08:16:47 -0400, wrote:

obama care will reduce costs, cover everybody, reduce mortality,

How will that happen? He did absolutely nothing to reduce costs. The
drug industry is unfettered, the medical conglomerates were not
touched and the insurance companies just got 15 million new customers
at the point of a government gun with no meaningful restriction of
what they could charge them.


You seem to think what was recently passed is the be-all and end-all. It
isn't.

To the contrary,
I doubt it was much more than a symbolic victory for the Democrats.
If anything it is part of a long term plan to destroy the insurance
industry and substitute that public plan the democrats want.

god, i hope so. if we do away with the insurance companies perhaps
we'll have a REAL healthcare system

The only
problem with that idea is we would then have to bail out insurance
company workers. Nobody really wants to cut into 17% of the economy,
no matter how hard they rail against it.

and, of course, tomorrow it will be 20, then 25% then 30...

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:25:30 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 14:00:42 -0400, hk
wrote:

I am entirely in favor of destroying the health insurance industry, and
replacing it with a system whose primary consideration is the best
outcome for patients.


There you go. ;-)

So much for "you can keep your existing plan" huh?


Why? What *I* favor and what our political system will allow, in
health care insurance, are hardly the same thing. Frankly, I think the
plan I have is pretty good; the shame is that it isn't available to most
Americans. How it would be paid for if it were universal is an entirely
separate discussion.


I suspect the Democratic leadership is more in tune with your thinking
than what the senate passed (basically a bill written by 2 United
Health Care lobbyists). That is why Dean was raising so much hell. I
am sure they cooled him out by telling him this was just the first
step to a single payer system but they have to kill off all the
insurance companies first. This should do it.
I really don't have a dog in this fight since I will be on Medicare
next year anyway so I am already going to be on a government single
payer system, like it or not.

Be prepared to be inundated with ads for a Medicare supplement.
--
John H

For a great time, go here first... http://tinyurl.com/ygqxs5v

On 17/04/2010 7:29 PM, bpuharic wrote:

[ bpuharic nonsense clip ]

You are a good little Democrat brownshirt.

I have lived more than 10 years on each side of the US/CAN border. Even
2 years in UK.

If I took my tax savings while working in the US and subtract hy health
care premiums and expenses for my wife and I, I was still far better off
in the USA by a long shot.

Dumb****s like you know squat. To you crossing the state line is a big
deal as your parole officer might find out. Just a 2 bit loser.

--
Time to ask, is our government serving us or are we serving the government?

On 18/04/2010 4:04 PM, bpuharic wrote:

and here in PA they just started a medical school in scranton...there
are several others underway

That will take years, I said now.

the added patients will take years, too. 2014.

More like when uncle Obama pays for it, big mouths don't pay bills.

fine. let's wait and see. right now the economy is growing,
unemployment is coming down, wall street is up and there are plans to
regulate the excesses of wall street.


The economy is growing because government spending is going up

well DUH!! remember you guys opposed this, opting, instead, for 25%
umemployment...

If I had my way, it would be below 5%.

and most economists don't think the TARP was big enough to carry the
economy forward to this level. the economy's growing because people
are starting to spend and businesses are doing likewise

Agreed, TARP is too small for this size of debt/dysfunction problem
congress created. Deployed wrong too, should have been a tax reduction
package to help out all of America, not just the sacred chosen few.

. Where
are the displaced auto workers and construction people going to go to
find their $50,000-60,000 job? How about the whole infrastructure that
supported them?

same place my dad did when the pittsburgh steel mills shut down


I will believe this recovery when I start hearing about people
actually getting real jobs. Right now most of the recovery is in those
same wall street slime balls that you blame for the problem in the
first place.

the banks are making out. which is why the GOP wants to defend them
and to ensure they can suck the public tit forever

If banking is making out, how come this is a record year for bank
closures? Government numbers...

And what happens when Obama can't borrow more without crashing the USD?

--
Time to ask, is our government serving us or are we serving the government?

"bpuharic" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:10:02 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"bpuharic" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:06:09 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:
W.

it doesn't work. how much evidence do you need? it's kind of like
asking 'who's buried in grant's tomb'?




yeah. and there's never been 'true communism'. and there's never been
'true christianity'

face it. the free market failed in healthcare. it's a failure. state
controlled healthcare provides better care at lower cost. if your way
worked, the US healthcare market would be the best in the world

it's not. it's a failure. the market has failed. that's what the data
and the evidence shows.

it's time to move on.



Basically state controlled health care. Via control of insurance
companies
and where they can sell.

bull****. if this is 'state controlled' healthcare...then why is TRUE
'socialized medicine'....more efficient than ours?

again and again you dodge the issue. again and again you ignore the
evidence. and you do so because your wall street god is dead.

And you bring up Christianity. Bad place to bring it up. How about the
Catholic Church (there are others with hospitals also, very good
hospitals)?

no one gives a **** about the child raping catholic church and its
pimp bishops.


And part of a Sam Miller statement.

"Do you know - the Catholic Church educates 2.6 million students

yeah. a nice little stable of boys to play with

everyday at
the cost to that Church of 10 billion dollars, and a savings on the other
hand to the American taxpayer of 18 billion dollars

to date theyv'e paid out 2 billion in insurance claims.

"

How many atheists have schools and hospitals?

actually, all of them. we support them with our taxes. we just dont
rape the chlidren we care for

Same reason mean teach grammar school? Are you a closet pedophile?