In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the
sheet around it to get a nice tight furl.

I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key
point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull
with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple
days ago.

Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is
something wrong with either your setup or your technique.

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers.

I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much on the furling line.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:42:22 -0500, lid (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the
sheet around it to get a nice tight furl.

I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key
point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull
with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple
days ago.

Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is
something wrong with either your setup or your technique.

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers.

I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much on the furling line.

When the wind suddenly pipes up, my 170% genoa can be a bear to wind
up. That's where heavy gloves come in handy. If I seem to be having
more trouble than normal, I immediately check to see if I've neglected
something, such as the backstay adjuster, or an over tight halyard.
I've always avoided using the winch, because the manufacturer said
that was a bad thing to do and should never be necessary of everythng
is setup and adjusted properly.

In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:42:22 -0500, lid (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote:
I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers.

I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much
on the furling line.

When the wind suddenly pipes up, my 170% genoa can be a bear to wind
up. That's where heavy gloves come in handy. If I seem to be having
more trouble than normal, I immediately check to see if I've neglected
something, such as the backstay adjuster, or an over tight halyard.
I've always avoided using the winch, because the manufacturer said
that was a bad thing to do and should never be necessary of everythng
is setup and adjusted properly.

Ah.. 170. Yeah, that might be a tad harder than my small, working jib.

On 10 Aug 2008 20:18:03 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:51:34 -0400, said:

When the wind suddenly pipes up, my 170% genoa can be a bear to wind
up. That's where heavy gloves come in handy.

You carry a 170 furler? And I thought I was maybe overdoing it with a 150.

I would never have gone out and bought one. It came with the boat, and
I don't use it that often. As I pointed out, here in the LIS, the wind
sometimes whispers at 3-5 knots for hours and then suddenly jumps to
15 without much warning. You don't always get an opportunity to "reef
early".

Unless I'm anticipating a long sail in very light conditions, it
usually stays at home, and I don't even keep it onboard. I have a
pretty nice 155%, so it's really not worth the extra weight or storage
space.

On Aug 10, 3:42 pm, (Jonathan Ganz) wrote:
In article ,



wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the
sheet around it to get a nice tight furl.

I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key
point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull
with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple
days ago.

Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is
something wrong with either your setup or your technique.

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers.

I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much on the furling line.

Boat size, sail size, wind speed and fear all factor into this at some
level. The wind speed issue is big as the loads vary with V^2. Above
around 35' feet and/or offshore I'd strongly recommend that the
furling line have a fair lead to a free winch. I like Harken gear but
one of the reasons I don't use one of their furlers on my offshore
cruiser is that putting the furling line on a winch voids their
warranty. Profurl, Sailrite and several others specifically allow the
use of winches for furling and that is a good thing in my book.

-- Tom.

wrote in message
...
On Aug 10, 3:42 pm, (Jonathan Ganz) wrote:
In article ,



wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine.
I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of
the
sheet around it to get a nice tight furl.

I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The
key
point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over
pull
with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a
couple
days ago.

Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is
something wrong with either your setup or your technique.

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers.

I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts.
It's odd that there would be that much on the furling line.

Boat size, sail size, wind speed and fear all factor into this at some
level. The wind speed issue is big as the loads vary with V^2. Above
around 35' feet and/or offshore I'd strongly recommend that the
furling line have a fair lead to a free winch. I like Harken gear but
one of the reasons I don't use one of their furlers on my offshore
cruiser is that putting the furling line on a winch voids their
warranty. Profurl, Sailrite and several others specifically allow the
use of winches for furling and that is a good thing in my book.

-- Tom.


I don't know if Schaefer allows it or not, but with the small jib I use,
it's never been an issue. The worst case is that the sail gets furled a bit
too tight to completely roll up, but that's easily fixed at the next
opportunity. I currently have the furling line lead through one of my spin
blocks, which I'm not using. It's directly positioned to use winch, so I
suppose I have that option.

Been sailing lately or are you still fixing stuff?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Aug 20, 2:24 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
....
Been sailing lately or are you still fixing stuff?

Well, yes... We sailed to Napa and fixed stuff and then sailed to
Vallejo and fixed stuff and then to Richmond (KKMI) and fixed stuff.
We've also sailed around in the bay a little not fixing stuff, but
that almost felt like cheating. We just got back from KKMI this
morning and the jib is still on the forestay but I think we're going
to be here at least until Monday so I'll drop it and bag it this
afternoon. We'll be fixing stuff while we're here. We're not quite
sure when we're going to start heading South but I think that we're a
few weeks away yet; there's no chance that we will have fixed all the
stuff on the list by then...

-- Tom.

wrote in message
...
On Aug 20, 2:24 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
...
Been sailing lately or are you still fixing stuff?

Well, yes... We sailed to Napa and fixed stuff and then sailed to
Vallejo and fixed stuff and then to Richmond (KKMI) and fixed stuff.
We've also sailed around in the bay a little not fixing stuff, but
that almost felt like cheating. We just got back from KKMI this
morning and the jib is still on the forestay but I think we're going
to be here at least until Monday so I'll drop it and bag it this
afternoon. We'll be fixing stuff while we're here. We're not quite
sure when we're going to start heading South but I think that we're a
few weeks away yet; there's no chance that we will have fixed all the
stuff on the list by then...

-- Tom.


Seems like everytime I fix something on my list, I add three more items to
the list. LOL

I've always had a good experience with KKMI. They're good people. Right
around the corner from me at Brickyard.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Aug 20, 3:56 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
....
Seems like everytime I fix something on my list, I add three more items to
the list. LOL

By rule, when the list exceeds three pages I throw it out and start a
new list.


I've always had a good experience with KKMI. They're good people. Right
around the corner from me at Brickyard.

I was impressed with them. Their hourly is brutal but I think they
were unusually honest in their billing and they let us stay on their
dock two nights and gave us a bottle of wine. Can't argue with
that.

-- Tom.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:04:42 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Aug 10, 3:42 pm, (Jonathan Ganz) wrote:
In article ,



wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the
sheet around it to get a nice tight furl.

I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key
point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull
with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple
days ago.

Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is
something wrong with either your setup or your technique.

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers.

I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much on the furling line.

Boat size, sail size, wind speed and fear all factor into this at some
level. The wind speed issue is big as the loads vary with V^2. Above
around 35' feet and/or offshore I'd strongly recommend that the
furling line have a fair lead to a free winch. I like Harken gear but
one of the reasons I don't use one of their furlers on my offshore
cruiser is that putting the furling line on a winch voids their
warranty. Profurl, Sailrite and several others specifically allow the
use of winches for furling and that is a good thing in my book.

Some reason a furler couldn't have a shear pin like an outboard motor?
Combine harvesters have a not very strong piece of lumber, about 1x2,
in the drive to the harvesting mechanism. Jam it and the board breaks,
instead of steel bending. The concept is widely known.

Casady