On 2008-08-10 07:22:14 -0400, "Roger Long" said:

The furling line should end in a ratchet block and then lead forward to the
cleat. The ideal location is such that you are located about mid way
between the block and the first fairlead. You can then reach down and swig
the line while holding the free end to lock the ratchet block. This lets
you develop quite a bit of extra power without the risk of overdoing it with
a winch ($$$$) and pump in the first few rolls.

On our boat, that would put that turning block well aft in the cockpit,
crossing sheets and the primary -- full-time. That disturbs me. Why not
just go around the primary winch for the short period? You won't have
the jib sheets on it at those times. (BTW, you just described another
form of winching.)

I happen to use a cabin-top winch as our "snub" for the furling line.
(When tying off, I wrap the line a dozen or so times around the winch,
many wraps overlapping previous ones, before going to the cleat.)

I can't winch with the winch as the lead is wrong (coming down), but
with only two blocks in the lead's run, I have very little drag and
have furled the sail in 25++ fairly easily.

I can get a little more power by bracing a foot against the bulkhead;
two feet and "lift with the knees" gives real power, yet I can feel if
the "haul" is wrong (usually the chute halyard wrapping up top).

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the
sheet around it to get a nice tight furl.

I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key
point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull
with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple
days ago.

--
Roger Long

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the
sheet around it to get a nice tight furl.

I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key
point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull
with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple
days ago.

Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is
something wrong with either your setup or your technique.

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

On 2008-08-10 16:57:43 -0400, said:

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

A trick: I added a short tail of 3/8" braid to the end of ours and put
a loop in the end. Easy to grip. A beneficial unexpected consequence is
that the line can't slip through the block if the sail snaps out
quickly.

We only use gloves on our boat for chill protection.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 22:34:23 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-08-10 16:57:43 -0400, said:

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

A trick: I added a short tail of 3/8" braid to the end of ours and put
a loop in the end. Easy to grip. A beneficial unexpected consequence is
that the line can't slip through the block if the sail snaps out
quickly.

We only use gloves on our boat for chill protection.

Be glad that you don't have arthritis.

In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the
sheet around it to get a nice tight furl.

I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key
point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull
with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple
days ago.

Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is
something wrong with either your setup or your technique.

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers.

I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much on the furling line.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:42:22 -0500, lid (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the
sheet around it to get a nice tight furl.

I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key
point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull
with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple
days ago.

Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is
something wrong with either your setup or your technique.

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers.

I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much on the furling line.

When the wind suddenly pipes up, my 170% genoa can be a bear to wind
up. That's where heavy gloves come in handy. If I seem to be having
more trouble than normal, I immediately check to see if I've neglected
something, such as the backstay adjuster, or an over tight halyard.
I've always avoided using the winch, because the manufacturer said
that was a bad thing to do and should never be necessary of everythng
is setup and adjusted properly.

In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:42:22 -0500, lid (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote:
I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers.

I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much
on the furling line.

When the wind suddenly pipes up, my 170% genoa can be a bear to wind
up. That's where heavy gloves come in handy. If I seem to be having
more trouble than normal, I immediately check to see if I've neglected
something, such as the backstay adjuster, or an over tight halyard.
I've always avoided using the winch, because the manufacturer said
that was a bad thing to do and should never be necessary of everythng
is setup and adjusted properly.

Ah.. 170. Yeah, that might be a tad harder than my small, working jib.

On 10 Aug 2008 20:18:03 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:51:34 -0400, said:

When the wind suddenly pipes up, my 170% genoa can be a bear to wind
up. That's where heavy gloves come in handy.

You carry a 170 furler? And I thought I was maybe overdoing it with a 150.

I would never have gone out and bought one. It came with the boat, and
I don't use it that often. As I pointed out, here in the LIS, the wind
sometimes whispers at 3-5 knots for hours and then suddenly jumps to
15 without much warning. You don't always get an opportunity to "reef
early".

Unless I'm anticipating a long sail in very light conditions, it
usually stays at home, and I don't even keep it onboard. I have a
pretty nice 155%, so it's really not worth the extra weight or storage
space.

On Aug 10, 3:42 pm, (Jonathan Ganz) wrote:
In article ,



wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the
sheet around it to get a nice tight furl.

I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key
point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull
with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple
days ago.

Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is
something wrong with either your setup or your technique.

I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter
furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a
winch.

Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers.

I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much on the furling line.

Boat size, sail size, wind speed and fear all factor into this at some
level. The wind speed issue is big as the loads vary with V^2. Above
around 35' feet and/or offshore I'd strongly recommend that the
furling line have a fair lead to a free winch. I like Harken gear but
one of the reasons I don't use one of their furlers on my offshore
cruiser is that putting the furling line on a winch voids their
warranty. Profurl, Sailrite and several others specifically allow the
use of winches for furling and that is a good thing in my book.

-- Tom.