I also gotta jump into this as these Perry designs have IMHO sufficient
reserve stern buoyancy due to their quite large 'bustles' .... If you
compare to a Collin Archer type narrow stern hull then I might agree
but not a Perry design 'double ender'.
Nowithstanding that more Perry (full and long keel) design have had
probably the most circumnavigations than any other design house - has
to say something.

;-) TY37 #423

In article , Dan Best
wrote:

Frank Maier wrote:
... Tayana, Baba, etc. are boats which I consider
unseaworthy

Now them's fightn' words! I am admitadly biased here, but forgive me if
I and numerous others disagree with you. My boat may not have the
advantage of what has been learned in the last couple of decades, but to
describe her and her sisters as "unseaworthy" is beyond rational, it's
unkind and insulting to a lady whao shows her years more gracefully than
anyone has a right to.

If you go to some of the
international cruising centers of the world where people have actually
made offshore passages just to get there, you will find very few boats
under 40 feet, and most are bigger.


not true. what IS true is that in expensive international cruising centers of
the world you WILL find more expensive boats. Generally, longer seaworthy
boats are more expensive than shorter seaworthy boats.

Go to the back waters away from large "cruising centers" and you will find lots
of smaller boats that have some great distances.

Keep in mind that *most* people on the water are scared to death of the water.
Therefore, they want bigger boats because they "heard" that bigger boats are
somehow "safer". Most people who cruiser want as many comforts of home as they
can find. Most women who consider going offshore with their man believe they
need to store a complete wardrobe of clothing and a couple dozen pairs of
shoes.

Yes, a quality 45 foot of excellent seaworthiness is perhaps a better sailing
boat than a same quality 27 foot boat of excellent seaworthiness, but you are
then talking about maybe 4 times the price.

Hold price constant and a smaller boat will give greater quality and greater
seaworthiness than the longer boat (remember, same dollars spent).

There is, however, the issue of crew. A seaworthy 45 footer needs more crew
onboard to safely sail long distances than a smaller seaworthy boat. I have
never seen a woman who could take down an 800 square foot mainsail by herself,
and damned few men who could either.

And few women, or men for that matter, who can raise a 65# anchor by hand when
the windlass breaks.

If safety is defined as space to knock around inside both at anchor and at sea,
then the larger boat is where it's at. If, on the other hand, safety is
defined as arriving at your destination with the crew you have available, then
the safest boat is the one you can handle under any foreseeable conditions.

As in airplanes where a good landing is one you can walk away from, in boats a
good landing is one you can take your dinghy to shore.

Can you spell?

E
P
I
R
B


ANYone who thinks that way is a moral cretin.

You are going to endanger the life of a young coastie with wife and kids at
home just to rescue your scummy butt because you wanted to take your boat where
you were not qualified to take it.

kriste almighty. You should be forcefully sterilized, and your children as
well should you already have childred.

what a putz.

okay, schlackoff. let's play your silly game.

do tell us what *you* would expect of a survival suit when three hundred miles
offshore your boat hit a tanker that kept on going because it didn't even know
you were there and you weren't watching?

now you are in the water, the EPIRB the moral reprobate said *he* would have
aboard in case his sail tore out sunk with the boat. 300 miles to the nearest
point of land and no one knows you are out there.

the point somebody made about survival suits is also very
important... keeping warm is key to being able to take an active role in
your own survival.

what good are survival suits 300 miles offshore?


If you have to ask that question, you should continue to stay on the beach.

Shen

This is from someone who called in a MayDay on a clear, light air day, on Long
Island Sound, because the engine was running a little hot. And then jaxie
complained because the coasties didn't come to the rescue!

Jaxie's exact quote:
"I was on a boat (in the middle of the Sound several miles from
either shore) with a disabled engine and neither the CG nor any towboat service
answered on 16 or 9."

Later he insisted they weren't disabled, just running hot. I'm guessing they
recognized his voice.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

ANYone who thinks that way is a moral cretin.

You are going to endanger the life of a young coastie with wife and kids at
home just to rescue your scummy butt because you wanted to take your boat
where
you were not qualified to take it.

kriste almighty. You should be forcefully sterilized, and your children as
well should you already have childred.

what a putz.

jeffies, the discussion you quoted had to do with the likelihood that the CG
would respond to a voice page.

Also, as I have explained to you before, *I* did not the declare an emergency,
the hired captain of the boat did along with the owner of the boat. It was the
third "emergency" in five days, a time period in which we made just 110 miles.
I left the boat when I was finally towed to shore, suddenly remembering a
"business meeting" I had to prepare for.

Again, I did not declare an emergency. I did try to raise the CG when the
hired captain and boat owner couldn't figure out how to use the handheld or
fixed mount radio.

btw, the engine *may* have been running hot, but I did not check. the hired
captain stated it as a fact and the owner accepted it as a fact. I mentioned I
did not see any steam and did not feel the extra warmth in the cabin an
overheated engine would normally bring, but the hired captain told me the
engine overheated.

btw-2: the CG contacted me later to ask if I had seen a copy of the hired
captain's Masters License. I said I had not and would not have asked to see
one and didn't care if he had one. the planned trip was short (300 miles), the
weather looked good, and I was familar with the waters. CG indicated the
reason they were asking is that the hired captain did not have, and never did
have, any Masters License, and it had been reported elsewhere that he had
produced such to boat owners.


This is from someone who called in a MayDay on a clear, light air day, on
Long
Island Sound, because the engine was running a little hot. And then jaxie
complained because the coasties didn't come to the rescue!

Jaxie's exact quote:
"I was on a boat (in the middle of the Sound several miles from
either shore) with a disabled engine and neither the CG nor any towboat
service
answered on 16 or 9."

Later he insisted they weren't disabled, just running hot. I'm guessing they
recognized his voice.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

ANYone who thinks that way is a moral cretin.

You are going to endanger the life of a young coastie with wife and kids at
home just to rescue your scummy butt because you wanted to take your boat
where
you were not qualified to take it.

kriste almighty. You should be forcefully sterilized, and your children as
well should you already have childred.

what a putz.

jaxie, you're always quick to claim that you "know someone" or "sailed with
someone" as if this really makes you look like a real sailor. But whenever you
tell your stories it becomes clear that the only rides you can get are with
total losers. Now you're claiming that the "professional" captain was a fraud
and a bozo. You claim to be the "engine expert" but you seem to be saying that
you called the Coast Guard rather than even look to see if the intake was
fouled.

On your great "Cape Hatteras Adventure" you had three GPS's and were about to
"turn back" because you couldn't find the Light and were afraid of hitting the
"rocks." But you never looked at a chart then, or after the fact to see where
you were.

Extra heat in the cabin??? I suppose it could happen, but in a proper setup by
the time you noticed the increase you would likely have done some damage, if
only to the hoses. Without a gauge, it more likely the first sign would be the
smell of paint burning off the engine.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, the discussion you quoted had to do with the likelihood that the CG
would respond to a voice page.

Also, as I have explained to you before, *I* did not the declare an emergency,
the hired captain of the boat did along with the owner of the boat. It was
the
third "emergency" in five days, a time period in which we made just 110 miles.
I left the boat when I was finally towed to shore, suddenly remembering a
"business meeting" I had to prepare for.

Again, I did not declare an emergency. I did try to raise the CG when the
hired captain and boat owner couldn't figure out how to use the handheld or
fixed mount radio.

btw, the engine *may* have been running hot, but I did not check. the hired
captain stated it as a fact and the owner accepted it as a fact. I mentioned
I
did not see any steam and did not feel the extra warmth in the cabin an
overheated engine would normally bring, but the hired captain told me the
engine overheated.

btw-2: the CG contacted me later to ask if I had seen a copy of the hired
captain's Masters License. I said I had not and would not have asked to see
one and didn't care if he had one. the planned trip was short (300 miles),
the
weather looked good, and I was familar with the waters. CG indicated the
reason they were asking is that the hired captain did not have, and never did
have, any Masters License, and it had been reported elsewhere that he had
produced such to boat owners.


This is from someone who called in a MayDay on a clear, light air day, on
Long
Island Sound, because the engine was running a little hot. And then jaxie
complained because the coasties didn't come to the rescue!

Jaxie's exact quote:
"I was on a boat (in the middle of the Sound several miles from
either shore) with a disabled engine and neither the CG nor any towboat
service
answered on 16 or 9."

Later he insisted they weren't disabled, just running hot. I'm guessing they
recognized his voice.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...

ANYone who thinks that way is a moral cretin.

You are going to endanger the life of a young coastie with wife and kids at
home just to rescue your scummy butt because you wanted to take your boat
where
you were not qualified to take it.

kriste almighty. You should be forcefully sterilized, and your children as
well should you already have childred.

what a putz.

On 22 Mar 2004 19:48:15 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

The myth of 200 mile days as typical is just a myth.

===============================================

I have sailed more 200 mile days than I can remember but for the most
part they were on large, well equipped racing boats over 40 feet. All
you need is a day of good reaching conditions where you can average a
bit over 8 knots. Not that difficult on a good boat, you just need
the right conditions.

jeffies, for the gazillionth time, *I* did not declare an emergency, the hired
captain did (long story, a story the CG investigated)

Now you're claiming that the "professional" captain was a fraud
and a bozo.

yup. and it is documented -- not by me -- by many others on another part of
the net.

You claim to be the "engine expert" but you seem to be saying that
you called the Coast Guard rather than even look to see if the intake was
fouled.

the hired captain insisted the engine overheated and the boat owner accepted
that statement. I had considered leaving the boat two days before when docked
to fix the first "emergency" and figured when we got to shore this time I would
indeed leave.

Extra heat in the cabin??? I suppose it could happen, but in a proper setup
by
the time you noticed the increase you would likely have done some damage, if
only to the hoses.

jeggies, you don't understand how much heat an overheated engine gives off how
quickly.

Without a gauge, it more likely the first sign would be the
smell of paint burning off the engine.

there was a guage visable to the hired captain.

But you never looked at a chart then, or after the fact to see where
you were.

we had up to date charts. the merchant marine with decades of experience, a
professional mariner who also had decades of offshore racing experience, didn't
wish to risk his boat by accepting as gospel that the charts were totally
accurate. I think that was prudent judgement on his part, and if I were the
boat owner instead of him I would have done the same thing. The lights were
where the obstructions were. The lights may or maybe not be accurately placed
on the charts.

it is easy to understand, jeggies. I don't know why you are having a problem
with it.