On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 19:33:51 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:05:49 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:32:07 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:45:51 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:07:49 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

much snipped

Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not
go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of
being run over by a tanker or something?

Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no
warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH
squall that hits you at night?

Of course not. A couple of things occur to me. First, I thought a
tsunami was only dangerous near land. If that's the case, then how
could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems
like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared
for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on?

snipped.

A tsunami, or any other wave is simply water in motion. Depending on
the length and speed of the wave, the amount of vertical movement is
generally dependant on the depth of the water it is moving in. So you
are correct to say that in deep water they don't have much height, but
simply saying "off shore" isn't a sufficient description as you can be
quite a distance "off shore" and still have relatively shallow water.
in among the S.W. Thai waters, where the Tsunami did the most damage,
waters are generally less then 100 ft.

A "Sumatra", which might be called a line squall in other parts of the
world, is a rather brisk wind that travels fairly rapidly and if at
night generally is bit of a shock.

In the case I mentioned I was sailing north along the E. Coast of
Malaysia on a fine moonlit night with about 5 K. wind. Then, within
only a few minutes it was blowing 60 miles an hour for about an hour.

As in the case of the Tsunami, it has been stated that it is the worst
natural disaster in Thai history. A bit hard to plan for. Squalls
occur, frequently with no warning, certainly not something you can
specifically prepare for other then in a general way that you know it
might blow a bit.

And I don't remember saying I was asleep when the squall hit.




Cheers,

Bruce

Not saying you were asleep. Sorry if I implied that.

As to water depth, in the middle of the ocean there's no dispute
right? No damage. So, you're claim is that in 100 ft of water, the
violence would be great? I recall hearing? reading? about people in
their sailboat in the harbor who rode it out by getting going, then
rescued a bunch of people. Seems to me you're safer moving and away
from the marina, which was my point.

You're saying you can't see a squall coming? You can't be prepared to
deal with it? It just happens and there's nothing that can be done?
Seems wrong to me....

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 17:12:50 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 19:33:51 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:05:49 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:32:07 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:45:51 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:07:49 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

much snipped

Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not
go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of
being run over by a tanker or something?

Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no
warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH
squall that hits you at night?

Of course not. A couple of things occur to me. First, I thought a
tsunami was only dangerous near land. If that's the case, then how
could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems
like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared
for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on?

snipped.

A tsunami, or any other wave is simply water in motion. Depending on
the length and speed of the wave, the amount of vertical movement is
generally dependant on the depth of the water it is moving in. So you
are correct to say that in deep water they don't have much height, but
simply saying "off shore" isn't a sufficient description as you can be
quite a distance "off shore" and still have relatively shallow water.
in among the S.W. Thai waters, where the Tsunami did the most damage,
waters are generally less then 100 ft.

A "Sumatra", which might be called a line squall in other parts of the
world, is a rather brisk wind that travels fairly rapidly and if at
night generally is bit of a shock.

In the case I mentioned I was sailing north along the E. Coast of
Malaysia on a fine moonlit night with about 5 K. wind. Then, within
only a few minutes it was blowing 60 miles an hour for about an hour.

As in the case of the Tsunami, it has been stated that it is the worst
natural disaster in Thai history. A bit hard to plan for. Squalls
occur, frequently with no warning, certainly not something you can
specifically prepare for other then in a general way that you know it
might blow a bit.

And I don't remember saying I was asleep when the squall hit.




Cheers,

Bruce

Not saying you were asleep. Sorry if I implied that.

As to water depth, in the middle of the ocean there's no dispute
right? No damage. So, you're claim is that in 100 ft of water, the
violence would be great?

Actually in my case it was the trough that was the most noticeable. I
was sitting on the cockpit combing and watching a catamaran and a mono
hull, both headed toward Phi Phi and discussing, with my wife, which
one would get there first when suddenly the horizon was only a very
short distance away, perhaps 50 - 100 meters. By the time I could say,
"What the...." the horizon was back to normal and we saw the wave hit
an island some 3 miles east of us.

I recall hearing? reading? about people in
their sailboat in the harbor who rode it out by getting going, then
rescued a bunch of people. Seems to me you're safer moving and away
from the marina, which was my point.

Yes, we had some friends anchored in a bay on the S.W. side of Phuket
and when the water suddenly went away, as they described it, they, a
bloke and his wife, started the engine and knocked the lock off the
anchor winch and ran the chain overboard and headed for the ocean.
They said that they got far enough off shore by the time the crest got
there that they just bounced up and down a bit.

You're saying you can't see a squall coming? You can't be prepared to
deal with it? It just happens and there's nothing that can be done?
Seems wrong to me....

I didn't say that you can't see a squall coming, in daylight but after
dark they are not easy to see. After all the squall may be advancing
at 60 MPH.

Now if you are sailing along with, say one reef pulled in, with the
wind blowing from the side of the boat - what is called a reach - then
from the time you see the squall is approaching until it gets to you
can be a very short time, and if it is after dark with only a light
wind blowing it may hit before you even know it is coming.

In the situation I described it will knock your boat down - lay it
over on its side - which by itself is not particularly hazardous in a
well found sloop (single masted boat), but will certainly make you sit
up and take notice.

Cheers,

Bruce

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:50:52 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not
go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of
being run over by a tanker or something?

Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no
warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH
squall that hits you at night?

Of course not. A couple of things occur to me. First, I thought a
tsunami was only dangerous near land. If that's the case, then how
could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems
like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared
for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on?

snipped.

A tsunami, or any other wave is simply water in motion. Depending on
the length and speed of the wave, the amount of vertical movement is
generally dependant on the depth of the water it is moving in. So you
are correct to say that in deep water they don't have much height, but
simply saying "off shore" isn't a sufficient description as you can be
quite a distance "off shore" and still have relatively shallow water.
in among the S.W. Thai waters, where the Tsunami did the most damage,
waters are generally less then 100 ft.

A "Sumatra", which might be called a line squall in other parts of the
world, is a rather brisk wind that travels fairly rapidly and if at
night generally is bit of a shock.

In the case I mentioned I was sailing north along the E. Coast of
Malaysia on a fine moonlit night with about 5 K. wind. Then, within
only a few minutes it was blowing 60 miles an hour for about an hour.

As in the case of the Tsunami, it has been stated that it is the worst
natural disaster in Thai history. A bit hard to plan for. Squalls
occur, frequently with no warning, certainly not something you can
specifically prepare for other then in a general way that you know it
might blow a bit.

And I don't remember saying I was asleep when the squall hit.

Not saying you were asleep. Sorry if I implied that.

As to water depth, in the middle of the ocean there's no dispute
right? No damage. So, you're claim is that in 100 ft of water, the
violence would be great?

Actually in my case it was the trough that was the most noticeable. I
was sitting on the cockpit combing and watching a catamaran and a mono
hull, both headed toward Phi Phi and discussing, with my wife, which
one would get there first when suddenly the horizon was only a very
short distance away, perhaps 50 - 100 meters. By the time I could say,
"What the...." the horizon was back to normal and we saw the wave hit
an island some 3 miles east of us.

So, nothing much happened on your boat. You noticed it, but that was
about it.

I recall hearing? reading? about people in
their sailboat in the harbor who rode it out by getting going, then
rescued a bunch of people. Seems to me you're safer moving and away
from the marina, which was my point.

Yes, we had some friends anchored in a bay on the S.W. side of Phuket
and when the water suddenly went away, as they described it, they, a
bloke and his wife, started the engine and knocked the lock off the
anchor winch and ran the chain overboard and headed for the ocean.
They said that they got far enough off shore by the time the crest got
there that they just bounced up and down a bit.

Sounds like they were prepared and did the right thing...?

You're saying you can't see a squall coming? You can't be prepared to
deal with it? It just happens and there's nothing that can be done?
Seems wrong to me....

I didn't say that you can't see a squall coming, in daylight but after
dark they are not easy to see. After all the squall may be advancing
at 60 MPH.

Now if you are sailing along with, say one reef pulled in, with the
wind blowing from the side of the boat - what is called a reach - then
from the time you see the squall is approaching until it gets to you
can be a very short time, and if it is after dark with only a light
wind blowing it may hit before you even know it is coming.

In the situation I described it will knock your boat down - lay it
over on its side - which by itself is not particularly hazardous in a
well found sloop (single masted boat), but will certainly make you sit
up and take notice.

Well, hang on a sec... I don't know what reef pulled in means, but
when the wind blows against the sail, the boat leans over... knocks
down? Ok. Then what? It comes back up or does it keep going? What
happens if you release all the sails? If it happens at night, then ok,
you got hit the first time, but then.... ?

We released all the ropes when we brought them down at the end of the
day... the sails and ropes just flapped around a lot and the boat
stopped moving.

In the book the Perfect Storm, the sailboat seems to take it long
enough for the people to be rescued, and it seems like the winds in
that storm are much higher than in a squall.

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:25:33 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:50:52 +0700, Bruce
wrote:


Actually in my case it was the trough that was the most noticeable. I
was sitting on the cockpit combing and watching a catamaran and a mono
hull, both headed toward Phi Phi and discussing, with my wife, which
one would get there first when suddenly the horizon was only a very
short distance away, perhaps 50 - 100 meters. By the time I could say,
"What the...." the horizon was back to normal and we saw the wave hit
an island some 3 miles east of us.

So, nothing much happened on your boat. You noticed it, but that was
about it.

Jesus, what did you expect? Had the wave arrived an hour earlier it
would have crushed the boat against an island and neither I or my wife
would be here to talk about it.

The discussion started with your talk about being "prepared" for
calamities at sea. I was simply trying to demonstrate that not
everything can be prepared for.

I recall hearing? reading? about people in
their sailboat in the harbor who rode it out by getting going, then
rescued a bunch of people. Seems to me you're safer moving and away
from the marina, which was my point.

Yes, we had some friends anchored in a bay on the S.W. side of Phuket
and when the water suddenly went away, as they described it, they, a
bloke and his wife, started the engine and knocked the lock off the
anchor winch and ran the chain overboard and headed for the ocean.
They said that they got far enough off shore by the time the crest got
there that they just bounced up and down a bit.

Sounds like they were prepared and did the right thing...?

Nope. In the first place they didn't know what was happening when it
occurred. All they knew was that "the water went away", as they said.
Their reaction was simply to get into more water so if it continued to
"go away" they would still be floating. Starting the engine... well
you turn the key, so perhaps leaving the key in the switch (as nearly
all Yachties do) is being prepared. Running the anchor chain out to
get free of the anchor is actually being un-prepared as most people
advocate tying a rope to the last link in the anchor chain so if you
do run the chain all the way out you don't lose it.

In the situation I described it will knock your boat down - lay it
over on its side - which by itself is not particularly hazardous in a
well found sloop (single masted boat), but will certainly make you sit
up and take notice.

Well, hang on a sec... I don't know what reef pulled in means, but
when the wind blows against the sail, the boat leans over... knocks
down? Ok. Then what? It comes back up or does it keep going? What
happens if you release all the sails? If it happens at night, then ok,
you got hit the first time, but then.... ?

A knock down occurs when the wind against the sail comes from, broadly
speaking, either side of the boat. If the wind suddenly blows hard
enough to overcome the weight of the boat, the boat tips over.
However, as the boat tips over (heels) the grip of the rudder on the
water diminishes and there is less force holding the boat on its
heading.

What happens is that the wind forces the boat over on its side, but
then the ruder is not holding the boat on its course so it turns into
the wind, which decreases the wind pressure on the sails and allows
the boat to right itself.

We released all the ropes when we brought them down at the end of the
day... the sails and ropes just flapped around a lot and the boat
stopped moving.

Yes, because you released the "sheets" the ropes that hold the sail
against the wind pressure and allot it to just flap - like a flag.

In the book the Perfect Storm, the sailboat seems to take it long
enough for the people to be rescued, and it seems like the winds in
that storm are much higher than in a squall.

I think that you are a bit confused as "The Perfect Storm" is a book
about the swordfishing boa, the Andrea Gail, out of Gloucester,
Massachusetts, that sank in 1991, in a large storm in the N. Atlantic.
Cheers,

Bruce

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 06:06:36 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:25:33 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:50:52 +0700, Bruce
wrote:


Actually in my case it was the trough that was the most noticeable. I
was sitting on the cockpit combing and watching a catamaran and a mono
hull, both headed toward Phi Phi and discussing, with my wife, which
one would get there first when suddenly the horizon was only a very
short distance away, perhaps 50 - 100 meters. By the time I could say,
"What the...." the horizon was back to normal and we saw the wave hit
an island some 3 miles east of us.

So, nothing much happened on your boat. You noticed it, but that was
about it.

Jesus, what did you expect? Had the wave arrived an hour earlier it
would have crushed the boat against an island and neither I or my wife
would be here to talk about it.

The discussion started with your talk about being "prepared" for
calamities at sea. I was simply trying to demonstrate that not
everything can be prepared for.

Bruce, I don't think I said that. I specifically talked about getting
run over by a tanker. Everyone deserves to be lucky from time to time!
I'm glad you and your wife are ok!


I recall hearing? reading? about people in
their sailboat in the harbor who rode it out by getting going, then
rescued a bunch of people. Seems to me you're safer moving and away
from the marina, which was my point.

Yes, we had some friends anchored in a bay on the S.W. side of Phuket
and when the water suddenly went away, as they described it, they, a
bloke and his wife, started the engine and knocked the lock off the
anchor winch and ran the chain overboard and headed for the ocean.
They said that they got far enough off shore by the time the crest got
there that they just bounced up and down a bit.

Sounds like they were prepared and did the right thing...?

Nope. In the first place they didn't know what was happening when it
occurred. All they knew was that "the water went away", as they said.
Their reaction was simply to get into more water so if it continued to
"go away" they would still be floating. Starting the engine... well
you turn the key, so perhaps leaving the key in the switch (as nearly
all Yachties do) is being prepared. Running the anchor chain out to
get free of the anchor is actually being un-prepared as most people
advocate tying a rope to the last link in the anchor chain so if you
do run the chain all the way out you don't lose it.

So, they were unprepared but did the right thing? Sounds like they
were prepared to do the right thing! lol

In the situation I described it will knock your boat down - lay it
over on its side - which by itself is not particularly hazardous in a
well found sloop (single masted boat), but will certainly make you sit
up and take notice.

Well, hang on a sec... I don't know what reef pulled in means, but
when the wind blows against the sail, the boat leans over... knocks
down? Ok. Then what? It comes back up or does it keep going? What
happens if you release all the sails? If it happens at night, then ok,
you got hit the first time, but then.... ?

A knock down occurs when the wind against the sail comes from, broadly
speaking, either side of the boat. If the wind suddenly blows hard
enough to overcome the weight of the boat, the boat tips over.
However, as the boat tips over (heels) the grip of the rudder on the
water diminishes and there is less force holding the boat on its
heading.

What happens is that the wind forces the boat over on its side, but
then the ruder is not holding the boat on its course so it turns into
the wind, which decreases the wind pressure on the sails and allows
the boat to right itself.

Ok, so it rights itself, and hopefully everyone is still on the boat,
along with the stuff...


We released all the ropes when we brought them down at the end of the
day... the sails and ropes just flapped around a lot and the boat
stopped moving.

Yes, because you released the "sheets" the ropes that hold the sail
against the wind pressure and allot it to just flap - like a flag.

Ok... well, if I got heeled, then I would release those sheets!

In the book the Perfect Storm, the sailboat seems to take it long
enough for the people to be rescued, and it seems like the winds in
that storm are much higher than in a squall.

I think that you are a bit confused as "The Perfect Storm" is a book
about the swordfishing boa, the Andrea Gail, out of Gloucester,
Massachusetts, that sank in 1991, in a large storm in the N. Atlantic.
Cheers,

Bruce

There was definitely a sailboat.. Satoria I think.

rOn Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:20:32 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 06:06:36 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:25:33 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:50:52 +0700, Bruce
wrote:


Actually in my case it was the trough that was the most noticeable. I
was sitting on the cockpit combing and watching a catamaran and a mono
hull, both headed toward Phi Phi and discussing, with my wife, which
one would get there first when suddenly the horizon was only a very
short distance away, perhaps 50 - 100 meters. By the time I could say,
"What the...." the horizon was back to normal and we saw the wave hit
an island some 3 miles east of us.

So, nothing much happened on your boat. You noticed it, but that was
about it.

Jesus, what did you expect? Had the wave arrived an hour earlier it
would have crushed the boat against an island and neither I or my wife
would be here to talk about it.

The discussion started with your talk about being "prepared" for
calamities at sea. I was simply trying to demonstrate that not
everything can be prepared for.

Bruce, I don't think I said that. I specifically talked about getting
run over by a tanker. Everyone deserves to be lucky from time to time!
I'm glad you and your wife are ok!


I recall hearing? reading? about people in
their sailboat in the harbor who rode it out by getting going, then
rescued a bunch of people. Seems to me you're safer moving and away
from the marina, which was my point.

Yes, we had some friends anchored in a bay on the S.W. side of Phuket
and when the water suddenly went away, as they described it, they, a
bloke and his wife, started the engine and knocked the lock off the
anchor winch and ran the chain overboard and headed for the ocean.
They said that they got far enough off shore by the time the crest got
there that they just bounced up and down a bit.

Sounds like they were prepared and did the right thing...?

Nope. In the first place they didn't know what was happening when it
occurred. All they knew was that "the water went away", as they said.
Their reaction was simply to get into more water so if it continued to
"go away" they would still be floating. Starting the engine... well
you turn the key, so perhaps leaving the key in the switch (as nearly
all Yachties do) is being prepared. Running the anchor chain out to
get free of the anchor is actually being un-prepared as most people
advocate tying a rope to the last link in the anchor chain so if you
do run the chain all the way out you don't lose it.

So, they were unprepared but did the right thing? Sounds like they
were prepared to do the right thing! lol

In the situation I described it will knock your boat down - lay it
over on its side - which by itself is not particularly hazardous in a
well found sloop (single masted boat), but will certainly make you sit
up and take notice.

Well, hang on a sec... I don't know what reef pulled in means, but
when the wind blows against the sail, the boat leans over... knocks
down? Ok. Then what? It comes back up or does it keep going? What
happens if you release all the sails? If it happens at night, then ok,
you got hit the first time, but then.... ?

A knock down occurs when the wind against the sail comes from, broadly
speaking, either side of the boat. If the wind suddenly blows hard
enough to overcome the weight of the boat, the boat tips over.
However, as the boat tips over (heels) the grip of the rudder on the
water diminishes and there is less force holding the boat on its
heading.

What happens is that the wind forces the boat over on its side, but
then the ruder is not holding the boat on its course so it turns into
the wind, which decreases the wind pressure on the sails and allows
the boat to right itself.

Ok, so it rights itself, and hopefully everyone is still on the boat,
along with the stuff...


We released all the ropes when we brought them down at the end of the
day... the sails and ropes just flapped around a lot and the boat
stopped moving.

Yes, because you released the "sheets" the ropes that hold the sail
against the wind pressure and allot it to just flap - like a flag.

Ok... well, if I got heeled, then I would release those sheets!

In the book the Perfect Storm, the sailboat seems to take it long
enough for the people to be rescued, and it seems like the winds in
that storm are much higher than in a squall.

I think that you are a bit confused as "The Perfect Storm" is a book
about the swordfishing boa, the Andrea Gail, out of Gloucester,
Massachusetts, that sank in 1991, in a large storm in the N. Atlantic.
Cheers,

Bruce

There was definitely a sailboat.. Satoria I think.

You are correct. The Satoria was in the book. The boat where the
Captain said there was no emergency but the crew called in an
authorized Mayday whereby the Coast Guard came out and rescued them
forcing the Captain to abandon the boat (according to statement by his
son). The owner/Captain searched for and found the boat essentially
undamaged since abandoned and sailed it on to Florida (I believe).

Cheers,

Bruce