Ive got the wood milling for a sampan that i scaled up to thirty feet.
going to build it as a study for a 50'X16' or so foot junk.
traditional building methods and all that. but i need some info from
cruisers
about layout as i draft the plans.
Ive spent most of my life on work boats and have no real clue as to
what a comfortable house layout would be. yes i know there is a
building group but most of the folks there are not cruising over long
distances.

so here is the list of stuff i am working on.
Ive got a relatively large amount of space to play with, excluding a
center hold of about 15 by 15.
I figure a small forepeak trunk for visitors and a gen set. engine,
batteries etc. under benches and behind ladders


1. food storage.
2.galley lay out.
3. salon layout.
4.head
5. state room lay out.

what accommodation plans for which boats do you find easy to use,
comfortable, logical and easy to maintain.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:50:29 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

Ive got the wood milling for a sampan that i scaled up to thirty feet.
going to build it as a study for a 50'X16' or so foot junk.
traditional building methods and all that. but i need some info from
cruisers
about layout as i draft the plans.
Ive spent most of my life on work boats and have no real clue as to
what a comfortable house layout would be. yes i know there is a
building group but most of the folks there are not cruising over long
distances.

so here is the list of stuff i am working on.
Ive got a relatively large amount of space to play with, excluding a
center hold of about 15 by 15.
I figure a small forepeak trunk for visitors and a gen set. engine,
batteries etc. under benches and behind ladders


1. food storage.
2.galley lay out.
3. salon layout.
4.head
5. state room lay out.

what accommodation plans for which boats do you find easy to use,
comfortable, logical and easy to maintain.

Good questions but the answers depend -

Is the boat going to be sailed at sea in potentially rough conditions?

If so, how many days of sea stores? Fuel and water requirements?

Are we talking about a 50 footer with full keel?

What about the center hold - fish, dry cargo ? Walk through or not?

How many crew?

Deck layout - pilot house, center cockpit, aft cockpit?

Good questions but the answers depend -

Is the boat going to be sailed at sea in potentially rough conditions?

oh yes i figure the coast of Alaska, out in the chain as far as attu
the remote islands in the arctic, the south pacific, down the west
coast of south America, the African continent, selected parts of Asia,
and the a few trips to the med.

If so, how many days of sea stores? Fuel and water requirements?

I am figuring 60 days of water (about 700 gal with a reserve, i have
not decided yet weather to cut this down due to water maker ) and
stores the longest transit would be the coconut milk run of almost
3000 miles.
fuel for 100 hours at working loads so call it 200 gal (hydro for
cargo gear, generator (augmented with solar and wind), water maker
and cook stove)

Are we talking about a 50 footer with full keel?
yes

What about the center hold - fish, dry cargo ?
both. depending on need.

Walk through or not?
not walk through.

How many crew?
max crew of four adults, mostly will run with two crew I expect kids
will be involved in here someplace.

Deck layout - pilot house, center cockpit, aft cockpit?

aft Pilot house slaved aux station forward of house at deck level,
center water tight hold, small coffin forepeak.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:53:20 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:



Good questions but the answers depend -

Is the boat going to be sailed at sea in potentially rough conditions?

oh yes i figure the coast of Alaska, out in the chain as far as attu
the remote islands in the arctic, the south pacific, down the west
coast of south America, the African continent, selected parts of Asia,
and the a few trips to the med.

If so, how many days of sea stores? Fuel and water requirements?

I am figuring 60 days of water (about 700 gal with a reserve, i have
not decided yet weather to cut this down due to water maker ) and
stores the longest transit would be the coconut milk run of almost
3000 miles.
fuel for 100 hours at working loads so call it 200 gal (hydro for
cargo gear, generator (augmented with solar and wind), water maker
and cook stove)

Are we talking about a 50 footer with full keel?
yes

What about the center hold - fish, dry cargo ?
both. depending on need.

Walk through or not?
not walk through.

How many crew?
max crew of four adults, mostly will run with two crew I expect kids
will be involved in here someplace.

Deck layout - pilot house, center cockpit, aft cockpit?

aft Pilot house slaved aux station forward of house at deck level,
center water tight hold, small coffin forepeak.



Alright, I can visualize that. You're going to want a small head
forward if there are going to be people bunked up there, and there is
no walk-thru aft. It doesn't need a shower unless you want one for
backup, or you anticipate 4 people on board most of the time. I'd
put the head on one side just forward of the bulkhead and match it
with a hanging locker on the other side. You'll also need someplace
for wet foul weather gear, perhaps behind the stairs. Personal gear
can go on shelves over the bunks which also act as hull stiffeners,
there should also be room for storage drawers under the bunks. The
bunks will need lee cloths or bunk boards of course. That pretty
much takes care of the forepeak.

Aft, you have to decide how much you want in the pilot house. At a
minimum you need a flat surface for charting and a hanging space for
wet foulies. A bunk is also nice, and if you go bigger you could
have a small dinette and galley. Either way, the galley sink should
be close to the centerline, especially if below.

Aft and down below, you've got to carve up the space for safety
reasons. You do not want the possibility of being wave tossed all the
way across a 15 ft beam. You'll also need to figure out what kind of
sleeping arrangements you want. What works well in port does not work
well underway so you may need some small sea bunks tucked away that
can double as shelves when not used for sleeping. A dining table that
folds up against a bulkhead makes good use of space. Make sure you
install lots of hand holds, especially in the more open spaces and
near the stairs.

I would save the very aft end of the boat as a storage lazarette for
bulky or heavy items - motor oil drums, dock gear, spare anchors,
chain, etc. The aft head needs a shower of course, and for the female
crew, decent lighting and mirrors.

On Feb 25, 11:57 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:53:20 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll



wrote:

Good questions but the answers depend -

Is the boat going to be sailed at sea in potentially rough conditions?

oh yes i figure the coast of Alaska, out in the chain as far as attu
the remote islands in the arctic, the south pacific, down the west
coast of south America, the African continent, selected parts of Asia,
and the a few trips to the med.

If so, how many days of sea stores? Fuel and water requirements?

I am figuring 60 days of water (about 700 gal with a reserve, i have
not decided yet weather to cut this down due to water maker ) and
stores the longest transit would be the coconut milk run of almost
3000 miles.
fuel for 100 hours at working loads so call it 200 gal (hydro for
cargo gear, generator (augmented with solar and wind), water maker
and cook stove)

Are we talking about a 50 footer with full keel?
yes

What about the center hold - fish, dry cargo ?
both. depending on need.

Walk through or not?
not walk through.

How many crew?
max crew of four adults, mostly will run with two crew I expect kids
will be involved in here someplace.

Deck layout - pilot house, center cockpit, aft cockpit?

aft Pilot house slaved aux station forward of house at deck level,
center water tight hold, small coffin forepeak.

Alright, I can visualize that. You're going to want a small head
forward if there are going to be people bunked up there, and there is
no walk-thru aft. It doesn't need a shower unless you want one for
backup, or you anticipate 4 people on board most of the time. I'd
put the head on one side just forward of the bulkhead and match it
with a hanging locker on the other side. You'll also need someplace
for wet foul weather gear, perhaps behind the stairs. Personal gear
can go on shelves over the bunks which also act as hull stiffeners,
there should also be room for storage drawers under the bunks. The
bunks will need lee cloths or bunk boards of course. That pretty
much takes care of the forepeak.

Aft, you have to decide how much you want in the pilot house. At a
minimum you need a flat surface for charting and a hanging space for
wet foulies.
I was thinking a wheel house station off to one side. with the salon
taking up the rest of this level. ive never had a bridge that was ever
empty of folks wanting to hang out. communications (VHS,single side
band), radar, meters, wheel and nav station (Charts, plotter, and
compass/gps). the deck level aux station would be bare bones since it
will be used to do fine work or to have a helm close at hand while
working on deck.


A bunk is also nice, and if you go bigger you could
have a small dinette and galley. Either way, the galley sink should
be close to the centerline, especially if below.

below decks would be galley, head, state room/s center lining the
galley and head is a great idea.

Aft and down below, you've got to carve up the space for safety
reasons. You do not want the possibility of being wave tossed all the
way across a 15 ft beam.
I hadn't thought of this.

You'll also need to figure out what kind of
sleeping arrangements you want. What works well in port does not work
well underway so you may need some small sea bunks tucked away that
can double as shelves when not used for sleeping. A dining table that
folds up against a bulkhead makes good use of space. Make sure you
install lots of hand holds, especially in the more open spaces and
near the stairs.
this is going to be the tricky part due to my height; what is a good
hand hold for me is not a good hand hold for shorter folks.

I would save the very aft end of the boat as a storage lazarette for
bulky or heavy items - motor oil drums, dock gear, spare anchors,
chain, etc. The aft head needs a shower of course, and for the female
crew, decent lighting and mirrors.

ya the aft head is going to have to be bigger than i thought. the
lazerette is a good idea i was thinking of a walk way around the
house at deck level to allow for easy tying up. the fold up bunks
would be good for a number of kids. coffin lockers in all the fixed
bunks, I havent decided to put a third mast on the boat but at any
rate i might put in a flying bridge just to enjoy the weather

on all the works boats we just lash the drums to the rail on deck. i
am trying to keep most of the main deck space free so it is easy to
get around. Basically to my eye a junk is just a sailing version of
the power scows we use for king crabbing. a bit more shape and much
finer lines perhaps but all in all much the same layout.

a sister ship to one of the boats i was on. http://flickr.com/photos/sacasea/2943249496/

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:32:48 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

Aft and down below, you've got to carve up the space for safety
reasons. You do not want the possibility of being wave tossed all the
way across a 15 ft beam.

I hadn't thought of this.

It's a serious issue on bigger boats with a wide beam. I've been
offshore twice with people who have broken ribs from being tossed
across the cabin.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:50:29 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

Ive got the wood milling for a sampan that i scaled up to thirty feet.
going to build it as a study for a 50'X16' or so foot junk.
traditional building methods and all that. but i need some info from
cruisers
about layout as i draft the plans.
Ive spent most of my life on work boats and have no real clue as to
what a comfortable house layout would be. yes i know there is a
building group but most of the folks there are not cruising over long
distances.

so here is the list of stuff i am working on.
Ive got a relatively large amount of space to play with, excluding a
center hold of about 15 by 15.
I figure a small forepeak trunk for visitors and a gen set. engine,
batteries etc. under benches and behind ladders


1. food storage.
2.galley lay out.
3. salon layout.
4.head
5. state room lay out.

what accommodation plans for which boats do you find easy to use,
comfortable, logical and easy to maintain.

You are using two terms that are totally different. Sampans and Junks
are totally different.. Different hull form and different construction
entirely. From your description I suspect that you are talking about a
junk as a sampan is pretty much a flat bottomed rowing skiff.

As a Junk has a nearly square hull cross section there is an amazing
amount of room in them compared to a conventional western sail boat.
They are also slower :-) The living space on a real junk is almost
always in the stern, amidships is hold and forward is not much more
then a cubby.

A friend designed the interior of his boat using a sliding scale based
on how much time he spent in a spot to calculate the size.

He reckoned that he spent very little time in the Head so it was just
big enough to back in and squat. He only slept in the sleeping
compartment so it was only slightly larger then the bunk. His wife
really liked to cook so there was a fairly large galley and finally
they reckoned that they spent most of their time in the salon so it
had the most room.

I was aboard his boat any number of times and it did seem pretty
spacious for a 38 ft. boat.

Food storage. If you plan to live aboard you probably want a fridge.
There are two basic systems Electric (12 VDC) driven and engine
driven. You can have a eutectic system with either type of power but
a conventional refrigerator will be electric. My air cooled condenser
12 VDC fridge draws about 5 amps when the compressor runs and it runs
about half eh time - say 60 AH/day. More modern ones use appreciably
less electricity. An engine driven one will require running the engine
at least once a day and sometimes more often but if you are anchored
out you will probably run your engine regularly to keep the batteries
up anyway. Or have a bunch of solar panels.

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.


You're not going into coffee shipping, are you???

Leanne

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "Leanne" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.

You're not going into coffee shipping, are you???

Leanne

naa that cargo is not worth transporting by boat its cheaper to fly.
the things i am thinking of hauling are durable and costly to fly. I
might make less money but i wont have to deal with the authorities
trying to shoot me out of the water.

all in all a good trade.