On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:53:20 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:



Good questions but the answers depend -

Is the boat going to be sailed at sea in potentially rough conditions?

oh yes i figure the coast of Alaska, out in the chain as far as attu
the remote islands in the arctic, the south pacific, down the west
coast of south America, the African continent, selected parts of Asia,
and the a few trips to the med.

If so, how many days of sea stores? Fuel and water requirements?

I am figuring 60 days of water (about 700 gal with a reserve, i have
not decided yet weather to cut this down due to water maker ) and
stores the longest transit would be the coconut milk run of almost
3000 miles.
fuel for 100 hours at working loads so call it 200 gal (hydro for
cargo gear, generator (augmented with solar and wind), water maker
and cook stove)

Are we talking about a 50 footer with full keel?
yes

What about the center hold - fish, dry cargo ?
both. depending on need.

Walk through or not?
not walk through.

How many crew?
max crew of four adults, mostly will run with two crew I expect kids
will be involved in here someplace.

Deck layout - pilot house, center cockpit, aft cockpit?

aft Pilot house slaved aux station forward of house at deck level,
center water tight hold, small coffin forepeak.



Alright, I can visualize that. You're going to want a small head
forward if there are going to be people bunked up there, and there is
no walk-thru aft. It doesn't need a shower unless you want one for
backup, or you anticipate 4 people on board most of the time. I'd
put the head on one side just forward of the bulkhead and match it
with a hanging locker on the other side. You'll also need someplace
for wet foul weather gear, perhaps behind the stairs. Personal gear
can go on shelves over the bunks which also act as hull stiffeners,
there should also be room for storage drawers under the bunks. The
bunks will need lee cloths or bunk boards of course. That pretty
much takes care of the forepeak.

Aft, you have to decide how much you want in the pilot house. At a
minimum you need a flat surface for charting and a hanging space for
wet foulies. A bunk is also nice, and if you go bigger you could
have a small dinette and galley. Either way, the galley sink should
be close to the centerline, especially if below.

Aft and down below, you've got to carve up the space for safety
reasons. You do not want the possibility of being wave tossed all the
way across a 15 ft beam. You'll also need to figure out what kind of
sleeping arrangements you want. What works well in port does not work
well underway so you may need some small sea bunks tucked away that
can double as shelves when not used for sleeping. A dining table that
folds up against a bulkhead makes good use of space. Make sure you
install lots of hand holds, especially in the more open spaces and
near the stairs.

I would save the very aft end of the boat as a storage lazarette for
bulky or heavy items - motor oil drums, dock gear, spare anchors,
chain, etc. The aft head needs a shower of course, and for the female
crew, decent lighting and mirrors.

On Feb 25, 1:58*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:55:10 -0800 (PST), Joe





wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:38*pm, Joe wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:01*pm, Two meter troll wrote:

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "Leanne" wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message

.. .

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.

You're not going into coffee shipping, are you???

Leanne

naa that cargo is not worth transporting by boat its cheaper to fly.
the things i am thinking of hauling are durable and costly to fly. I
might make less money but i wont have to deal with the authorities
trying to shoot me out of the water.

all in all a good trade.

*Are you going to be hauling cargo for hire? Or just trading stuff on
the sly?
Have you ever taken a cargo boat with stuff in i'ts hold into another
country?

Coffee is a very durable cargo green. You can carry alot in a very
small space.
20'x8'x8'6" can carry around 50,000 lbs or 40'x8'x8'6" can carry 100
thousand.

*Good luck on the Junk, I would love to have one, but feel they are
more suited for near coastal and harbor work.
I'd consider Kawlon Harbor and buying vs building new...go with a ming
dynasty design.

If you build, will it be steel?
Do you have a boat now?

*I saw you mentioned Work boats, what type of work?

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Forgot to mention, Junks are slow, not that slow is bad all the time,
just fast is better.

Junks are known for their seaworthiness. They tend to reach their
destinations, regardless of what they encounter on the way.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi Mike,

Yes they are, I checked out many in Hong Kong back in the 80's. Most
were over a hundred years old.
Very sturdy, first ever to incorporate water tight compartments.

Have you heard of Khan's lost fleet?

Joe

On Feb 25, 11:38 am, Joe wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:01 pm, Two meter troll wrote:



On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "Leanne" wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message

.. .

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.

You're not going into coffee shipping, are you???

Leanne

naa that cargo is not worth transporting by boat its cheaper to fly.
the things i am thinking of hauling are durable and costly to fly. I
might make less money but i wont have to deal with the authorities
trying to shoot me out of the water.

all in all a good trade.

Are you going to be hauling cargo for hire? Or just trading stuff on
the sly?

probably a bit of both if on the sly you mean taking cargo up to
remote places in the arctic for friends that dont have boats to carry
bulk goods from the lower 48. ive done that for years.

Have you ever taken a cargo boat with stuff in i'ts hold into another
country?

yep its not to bad as long as you go point to point. stopping in the
little ports coast hopping is a good way to go broke. Every inspector
expects a bit of ba-keesh.

Coffee is a very durable cargo green. You can carry alot in a very
small space.
20'x8'x8'6" can carry around 50,000 lbs or 40'x8'x8'6" can carry 100
thousand.

however Coffee is also a drug smugglers cargo. i would rather not have
my cargo ripped apart at every stop. and i don't want a whole passel
of mutts on my boat.

Good luck on the Junk, I would love to have one, but feel they are
more suited for near coastal and harbor work.

I like building boats this one will be number 7 and the third of over
30 feet.

I'd consider Kawlon Harbor and buying vs building new...go with a ming
dynasty design.

http://www.chrisdixonstudios.com/hcs...reenwidth=1024

If you build, will it be steel?

not if i am sane.
wood Doug fir, myrtle wood and PO cedar specifically

Do you have a boat now?
yep 3 and more i can lay my hands to. two of those are 28 and 30 foot
skin on frame student boats.

I saw you mentioned Work boats, what type of work?

King crabbing, salmon trolling, Cargo, tendering and oil exploration
OBC and streamer.


Joe

On Feb 25, 2:49*pm, Two meter troll wrote:
On Feb 25, 11:38 am, Joe wrote:





On Feb 25, 1:01 pm, Two meter troll wrote:

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "Leanne" wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message

.. .

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.

You're not going into coffee shipping, are you???

Leanne

naa that cargo is not worth transporting by boat its cheaper to fly.
the things i am thinking of hauling are durable and costly to fly. I
might make less money but i wont have to deal with the authorities
trying to shoot me out of the water.

all in all a good trade.

*Are you going to be hauling cargo for hire? Or just trading stuff on
the sly?

probably a bit of both if on the sly you mean taking cargo up to
remote places in the arctic for friends that dont have boats to carry
bulk goods from the lower 48. ive done that for years.

Thats perfectly legal. Alaska is America. Good plan

Have you ever taken a cargo boat with stuff in i'ts hold into another
country?

yep its not to bad as long as you go point to point. stopping in the
little ports coast hopping is a good way to go broke. Every inspector
expects a bit of ba-keesh.

Indeed, stopping anywhere you can expect to toss some lan-yap


Coffee is a very durable cargo green. You can carry alot in a very
small space.
20'x8'x8'6" can carry around 50,000 lbs or 40'x8'x8'6" can carry 100
thousand.

however Coffee is also a drug smugglers cargo.

I have not heard that. Can you poimt to an example of that? True C.A.
is full of drug dealers, and thats the closest source of beans, but
ive never heard of that. Someone trying to smuggle an ounce on the
boat in a coffee can maybe

i would rather not have
my cargo ripped apart at every stop. and i don't want a whole passel
of mutts on my boat.

Well if you stay in the US and haul for friends you should not have
any problems what so ever.



*Good luck on the Junk, I would love to have one, but feel they are
more suited for near coastal and harbor work.

I like building boats this one will be number 7 and the third of over
30 feet.

I'd consider Kawlon Harbor and buying vs building new...go with a ming
dynasty design.

http://www.chrisdixonstudios.com/hcs...s/gallery.php?...

If you build, will it be steel?

not if i am sane.
*wood Doug fir, myrtle wood and PO cedar specifically

Ok traditional junk-50 ft= 25 acres of lumber..But the value of the
junks in china is the old growth mahogany and teak.

Do you have a boat now?

yep 3 and more i can lay my hands to. two of those are 28 and 30 foot
skin on frame student boats.



*I saw you mentioned Work boats, what type of work?

King crabbing, salmon trolling, Cargo, tendering and oil exploration
OBC and streamer.

buuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Joe




Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are you going to be hauling cargo for hire? Or just trading stuff on
the sly?

probably a bit of both if on the sly you mean taking cargo up to
remote places in the arctic for friends that dont have boats to carry
bulk goods from the lower 48. ive done that for years.

Thats perfectly legal. Alaska is America. Good plan

Have you ever taken a cargo boat with stuff in i'ts hold into another
country?

yep its not to bad as long as you go point to point. stopping in the
little ports coast hopping is a good way to go broke. Every inspector
expects a bit of ba-keesh.

Indeed, stopping anywhere you can expect to toss some lan-yap





however Coffee is also a drug smugglers cargo.

I have not heard that. Can you poimt to an example of that? True C.A.
is full of drug dealers, and thats the closest source of beans, but
ive never heard of that. Someone trying to smuggle an ounce on the
boat in a coffee can maybe

Maybe but if i know it as a rumor im pretty sure the CG and other
inspectors will also. IMO the prevention of suspicion is better than
the attention of suspicion.
i will be getting the eye at any rate; from the various Homeland
security folks in the US better to be as safe as i can.

Well if you stay in the US and haul for friends you should not have
any problems what so ever.

oh i plan on getting around a bit more than that. however running
cargo out side the US has its attendant difficulties and i will
evaluate those as needed. the various bonding is an issue that is easy
for a big company and not so for a small guy.


wood Doug fir, myrtle wood and PO cedar specifically

Ok traditional junk-50 ft= 25 acres of lumber..But the value of the
junks in china is the old growth mahogany and teak.

very true. however i have the wood here and the milling operations. if
i was to get a boat built in china the only way to pay for the whole
bang would be to fill the hull with those exotic woods and sail her
home then finish the accommodation's.
an aside is that i like myrtlewood fir and port orford cedar. its
here its handy and its cheap. well, within reason.


King crabbing, salmon trolling, Cargo, tendering and oil exploration
OBC and streamer.

buuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

its not to bad, winter can get a little bleak (I wintered over a
couple of times in the high arctic), summer on the other hand is
marvelous. i miss the tundra flowering in spring. get this boat done
and we can skip the seasons we don't want to deal with

On Feb 25, 11:57 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:53:20 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll



wrote:

Good questions but the answers depend -

Is the boat going to be sailed at sea in potentially rough conditions?

oh yes i figure the coast of Alaska, out in the chain as far as attu
the remote islands in the arctic, the south pacific, down the west
coast of south America, the African continent, selected parts of Asia,
and the a few trips to the med.

If so, how many days of sea stores? Fuel and water requirements?

I am figuring 60 days of water (about 700 gal with a reserve, i have
not decided yet weather to cut this down due to water maker ) and
stores the longest transit would be the coconut milk run of almost
3000 miles.
fuel for 100 hours at working loads so call it 200 gal (hydro for
cargo gear, generator (augmented with solar and wind), water maker
and cook stove)

Are we talking about a 50 footer with full keel?
yes

What about the center hold - fish, dry cargo ?
both. depending on need.

Walk through or not?
not walk through.

How many crew?
max crew of four adults, mostly will run with two crew I expect kids
will be involved in here someplace.

Deck layout - pilot house, center cockpit, aft cockpit?

aft Pilot house slaved aux station forward of house at deck level,
center water tight hold, small coffin forepeak.

Alright, I can visualize that. You're going to want a small head
forward if there are going to be people bunked up there, and there is
no walk-thru aft. It doesn't need a shower unless you want one for
backup, or you anticipate 4 people on board most of the time. I'd
put the head on one side just forward of the bulkhead and match it
with a hanging locker on the other side. You'll also need someplace
for wet foul weather gear, perhaps behind the stairs. Personal gear
can go on shelves over the bunks which also act as hull stiffeners,
there should also be room for storage drawers under the bunks. The
bunks will need lee cloths or bunk boards of course. That pretty
much takes care of the forepeak.

Aft, you have to decide how much you want in the pilot house. At a
minimum you need a flat surface for charting and a hanging space for
wet foulies.
I was thinking a wheel house station off to one side. with the salon
taking up the rest of this level. ive never had a bridge that was ever
empty of folks wanting to hang out. communications (VHS,single side
band), radar, meters, wheel and nav station (Charts, plotter, and
compass/gps). the deck level aux station would be bare bones since it
will be used to do fine work or to have a helm close at hand while
working on deck.


A bunk is also nice, and if you go bigger you could
have a small dinette and galley. Either way, the galley sink should
be close to the centerline, especially if below.

below decks would be galley, head, state room/s center lining the
galley and head is a great idea.

Aft and down below, you've got to carve up the space for safety
reasons. You do not want the possibility of being wave tossed all the
way across a 15 ft beam.
I hadn't thought of this.

You'll also need to figure out what kind of
sleeping arrangements you want. What works well in port does not work
well underway so you may need some small sea bunks tucked away that
can double as shelves when not used for sleeping. A dining table that
folds up against a bulkhead makes good use of space. Make sure you
install lots of hand holds, especially in the more open spaces and
near the stairs.
this is going to be the tricky part due to my height; what is a good
hand hold for me is not a good hand hold for shorter folks.

I would save the very aft end of the boat as a storage lazarette for
bulky or heavy items - motor oil drums, dock gear, spare anchors,
chain, etc. The aft head needs a shower of course, and for the female
crew, decent lighting and mirrors.

ya the aft head is going to have to be bigger than i thought. the
lazerette is a good idea i was thinking of a walk way around the
house at deck level to allow for easy tying up. the fold up bunks
would be good for a number of kids. coffin lockers in all the fixed
bunks, I havent decided to put a third mast on the boat but at any
rate i might put in a flying bridge just to enjoy the weather

on all the works boats we just lash the drums to the rail on deck. i
am trying to keep most of the main deck space free so it is easy to
get around. Basically to my eye a junk is just a sailing version of
the power scows we use for king crabbing. a bit more shape and much
finer lines perhaps but all in all much the same layout.

a sister ship to one of the boats i was on. http://flickr.com/photos/sacasea/2943249496/

On Feb 25, 3:46*pm, Two meter troll wrote:
*Are you going to be hauling cargo for hire? Or just trading stuff on
the sly?

probably a bit of both if on the sly you mean taking cargo up to
remote places in the arctic for friends that dont have boats to carry
bulk goods from the lower 48. ive done that for years.

*Thats perfectly legal. Alaska is America. Good plan

Have you ever taken a cargo boat with stuff in i'ts hold into another
country?

yep its not to bad as long as you go point to point. stopping in the
little ports coast hopping is a good way to go broke. Every inspector
expects a bit of ba-keesh.

Indeed, stopping anywhere you can expect to toss some lan-yap

however Coffee is also a drug smugglers cargo.

I have not heard that. Can you poimt to an example of that? True C.A.
is full of drug dealers, and thats the closest source of beans, but
ive never heard of that. Someone trying to smuggle an ounce on the
boat in a coffee can maybe

Maybe but if i know it as a rumor im pretty sure the CG and other
inspectors will also. IMO the prevention of suspicion is better than
the attention of suspicion.
i will be getting the eye at any rate; from the various Homeland
security folks in the US better to be as safe as i can.


Geeee the USCG guys I know look for junks coming back from backwoods
Alaska loaded down with pot, it's worth more than any boat load of
crab. And IIRC one of the biggest pot ports is in Canada on that side
just north or the border.

But if you are not doing anything illegal then its not going to be a
problem.

Well if you stay in the US and haul for friends you should not have
any problems what so ever.

oh i plan on getting around a bit more than that. however running
cargo out side the US has its attendant difficulties and i will
evaluate those as needed. the various bonding is an issue that is easy
for a big company and not so for a small guy.



*wood Doug fir, myrtle wood and PO cedar specifically

Ok traditional junk-50 ft= 25 acres of lumber..But the value of the
junks in china is the old growth mahogany and teak.

very true. however i have the wood here and the milling operations. if
i was to get a boat built in china the only way to pay for the whole
bang would be to fill the hull with those exotic woods and sail her
home then finish the accommodation's.

All the old growth wood is long gone, Im talking 24" X 42" solid
mahogany keels.
Beware of importing "exotic woods" very tricky and you can loose your
cargo real easy to restrictions and bans.

an aside is that i like myrtlewood *fir and port orford cedar. its
here its handy and its cheap. *well, within reason.

Hey as long as it dont rot and holds up well in sal****er it should
work.


King crabbing, salmon trolling, Cargo, tendering and oil exploration
OBC and streamer.

buuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

its not to bad, winter can get a little bleak (I wintered over a
couple of times in the high arctic), summer on the other hand is
marvelous. *i miss the tundra flowering in spring. get this boat done
and we can skip the seasons we don't want to deal with- Hide quoted text -

Yeah that tundra in spring sounds nice, it's just that other 90% of
the year thats the problem.

Joe

- Show quoted text -

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:01:49 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "Leanne" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.

You're not going into coffee shipping, are you???

Leanne

naa that cargo is not worth transporting by boat its cheaper to fly.
the things i am thinking of hauling are durable and costly to fly. I
might make less money but i wont have to deal with the authorities
trying to shoot me out of the water.

all in all a good trade.


Sure.

There were a couple of guys used to do that here in Thailand. Every
month or so they'd come in and tie up at the marina, usually late in
the evening. somebody would meet them and there would be a flurry of
activity. Then you'd see them at the local restaurant for a late
supper and next morning they'd be gone.

Haven't seen them in a while so I suppose that either they got rich
and retired or are living at government expense somewhere.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:20:43 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

On Feb 25, 4:56 am, Bruce in Bangkok decypher-
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:50:29 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll



wrote:
Ive got the wood milling for a sampan that i scaled up to thirty feet.
going to build it as a study for a 50'X16' or so foot junk.
traditional building methods and all that. but i need some info from
cruisers
about layout as i draft the plans.
Ive spent most of my life on work boats and have no real clue as to
what a comfortable house layout would be. yes i know there is a
building group but most of the folks there are not cruising over long
distances.

so here is the list of stuff i am working on.
Ive got a relatively large amount of space to play with, excluding a
center hold of about 15 by 15.
I figure a small forepeak trunk for visitors and a gen set. engine,
batteries etc. under benches and behind ladders

1. food storage.
2.galley lay out.
3. salon layout.
4.head
5. state room lay out.

what accommodation plans for which boats do you find easy to use,
comfortable, logical and easy to maintain.

You are using two terms that are totally different. Sampans and Junks
are totally different.. Different hull form and different construction
entirely. From your description I suspect that you are talking about a
junk as a sampan is pretty much a flat bottomed rowing skiff.

As a Junk has a nearly square hull cross section there is an amazing
amount of room in them compared to a conventional western sail boat.
They are also slower :-) The living space on a real junk is almost
always in the stern, amidships is hold and forward is not much more
then a cubby.

A friend designed the interior of his boat using a sliding scale based
on how much time he spent in a spot to calculate the size.

He reckoned that he spent very little time in the Head so it was just
big enough to back in and squat. He only slept in the sleeping
compartment so it was only slightly larger then the bunk. His wife
really liked to cook so there was a fairly large galley and finally
they reckoned that they spent most of their time in the salon so it
had the most room.

I was aboard his boat any number of times and it did seem pretty
spacious for a 38 ft. boat.

Food storage. If you plan to live aboard you probably want a fridge.
There are two basic systems Electric (12 VDC) driven and engine
driven. You can have a eutectic system with either type of power but
a conventional refrigerator will be electric. My air cooled condenser
12 VDC fridge draws about 5 amps when the compressor runs and it runs
about half eh time - say 60 AH/day. More modern ones use appreciably
less electricity. An engine driven one will require running the engine
at least once a day and sometimes more often but if you are anchored
out you will probably run your engine regularly to keep the batteries
up anyway. Or have a bunch of solar panels.

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Actually i am talking about two different boats here and i am very
well aware of the differences between the hull forms.
the sampan is to use the traditional building methods before i build a
fifty foot junk. planks with floors and bulkheads are not like the
western skeleton with planks, the whole mind set and assumption base
is different.
however both sampans and junks are built with the same methods.
building with the traditional methods is what i do.

yep i like house aft boats. part of the below decks area froward is
for machinery. gen set, water maker, the noisy stuff.
with a small accommodation for guests or kids.partially trunked.

LOL everyone i show the plans to tells me that junks are slow and
don't go to the wind as well as western boats. I don't want a race
boat i want a cruising boat. more important to me is the comfort and
distance capability, might take me longer to arrive but i can have a
nice ride. I figure the junk will be my last boat and its gotta travel
well for long transits.

Junks are slow, mostly due to the large wetted area of most of them
and they don't go to windward much better then a square rigger because
of the sails. The Europeans, in the late 17 and 1800's rigged some
junk hulls with Western sail plans ( called Lorchas I believe) to get
better windward ability.

On the other hand, the battened sails do make it real easy to reef;
just lower the sail a bit.

that sliding scale sounds like a good idea

got the electrical covered it will be 12 volt solar/wind with a
generator backup. I am going to put electric moters in this so i will
have two battery banks. one for house and bridge power and one for
propulsion with a crossover just in case.

Ahh the cargo hold. it will be able to be pumped full of water when
the boat is running lite with no cargo or fishing; and dry when i need
to transport bulk cargo. it will be able to take 22 full pallets of
goods with room for dunnage or be hand stacked to get more cargo in.
in my mind a boat must be able to pay her own way and normally this
means hauling goods be they fish or dry to other places. since i
figure we will be running up north i can make a bit of cash on bulk
cargo for friends in the more remote villages ( i have already
researched this option and spoken to many folks about this plan and
most have agreed that if i offered this service i would have as much
if not more work than i can handle). 22 pallets of box milk is a very
valuable cargo in the chain since liquids cost dearly to fly. sides
cargo holds make great playpens.

If you expect to sail to windward you will probably need either lee
boards or center boards I suspect. Traditional junk hulls were built
for either river and in-shore sailing or ocean sailing. Not both.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Geeee the USCG guys I know look for junks coming back from backwoods
Alaska loaded down with pot, it's worth more than any boat load of
crab. And IIRC one of the biggest pot ports is in Canada on that side
just north or the border.

But if you are not doing anything illegal then its not going to be a
problem.

Heh like a person would use a big boat to move pot across that border.
its a short Zode ride across the sound.
best done at night several boats with no moon and a good muffler.
sides i live in oregon why the heck would i import pot?


very true. however i have the wood here and the milling operations. if
i was to get a boat built in china the only way to pay for the whole
bang would be to fill the hull with those exotic woods and sail her
home then finish the accommodation's.

All the old growth wood is long gone, Im talking 24" X 42" solid
mahogany keels.
Beware of importing "exotic woods" very tricky and you can loose your
cargo real easy to restrictions and bans.

thats pretty much the size of it.

an aside is that i like myrtlewood fir and port orford cedar. its
here its handy and its cheap. well, within reason.

Hey as long as it dont rot and holds up well in sal****er it should
work.

just cause its not used in the east to build boats dont mean it aint
good. folks built ships out of myrtle wood Doug fir is a moderate rot
resistance and PO cedar will last practically forever. it would scale
at mahogany, white oak and well PO cedar. like i said i have the
access to the materials right here and can get custom cut OG if i want
a solid keel 50 feet long i can get one. but frankly why? i am not so
much of a traditionalist as to eschew the use of epoxy and a laminated
keel is far better than a solid chunk of wood, i can build it to have
all the curve and counter stress i need with out having to deal with
grain runout, checking, rot pockets, termites, etc. and if i wish i
can bury a few hundred pounds of lead in it.

I might build traditional but i also realize that there are places
where the tradition is to use the best passable solution.
like covering the hull in epoxy and cloth. if i have a choice of
protecting the materials the hull is composed of then i will do that.
small price to pay for the lifetime of a boat.


its not to bad, winter can get a little bleak (I wintered over a
couple of times in the high arctic), summer on the other hand is
marvelous. i miss the tundra flowering in spring. get this boat done
and we can skip the seasons we don't want to deal with

Yeah that tundra in spring sounds nice, it's just that other 90% of
the year thats the problem.


I like the summer as long as i am at sea during it. the folks on land
have the problems with bugs. and southeast in winter
is very much like oregon with a touch more snow. so i would say about
half the year is not good.