Ive got the wood milling for a sampan that i scaled up to thirty feet.
going to build it as a study for a 50'X16' or so foot junk.
traditional building methods and all that. but i need some info from
cruisers
about layout as i draft the plans.
Ive spent most of my life on work boats and have no real clue as to
what a comfortable house layout would be. yes i know there is a
building group but most of the folks there are not cruising over long
distances.

so here is the list of stuff i am working on.
Ive got a relatively large amount of space to play with, excluding a
center hold of about 15 by 15.
I figure a small forepeak trunk for visitors and a gen set. engine,
batteries etc. under benches and behind ladders


1. food storage.
2.galley lay out.
3. salon layout.
4.head
5. state room lay out.

what accommodation plans for which boats do you find easy to use,
comfortable, logical and easy to maintain.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:50:29 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

Ive got the wood milling for a sampan that i scaled up to thirty feet.
going to build it as a study for a 50'X16' or so foot junk.
traditional building methods and all that. but i need some info from
cruisers
about layout as i draft the plans.
Ive spent most of my life on work boats and have no real clue as to
what a comfortable house layout would be. yes i know there is a
building group but most of the folks there are not cruising over long
distances.

so here is the list of stuff i am working on.
Ive got a relatively large amount of space to play with, excluding a
center hold of about 15 by 15.
I figure a small forepeak trunk for visitors and a gen set. engine,
batteries etc. under benches and behind ladders


1. food storage.
2.galley lay out.
3. salon layout.
4.head
5. state room lay out.

what accommodation plans for which boats do you find easy to use,
comfortable, logical and easy to maintain.

Good questions but the answers depend -

Is the boat going to be sailed at sea in potentially rough conditions?

If so, how many days of sea stores? Fuel and water requirements?

Are we talking about a 50 footer with full keel?

What about the center hold - fish, dry cargo ? Walk through or not?

How many crew?

Deck layout - pilot house, center cockpit, aft cockpit?

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:50:29 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

Ive got the wood milling for a sampan that i scaled up to thirty feet.
going to build it as a study for a 50'X16' or so foot junk.
traditional building methods and all that. but i need some info from
cruisers
about layout as i draft the plans.
Ive spent most of my life on work boats and have no real clue as to
what a comfortable house layout would be. yes i know there is a
building group but most of the folks there are not cruising over long
distances.

so here is the list of stuff i am working on.
Ive got a relatively large amount of space to play with, excluding a
center hold of about 15 by 15.
I figure a small forepeak trunk for visitors and a gen set. engine,
batteries etc. under benches and behind ladders


1. food storage.
2.galley lay out.
3. salon layout.
4.head
5. state room lay out.

what accommodation plans for which boats do you find easy to use,
comfortable, logical and easy to maintain.

You are using two terms that are totally different. Sampans and Junks
are totally different.. Different hull form and different construction
entirely. From your description I suspect that you are talking about a
junk as a sampan is pretty much a flat bottomed rowing skiff.

As a Junk has a nearly square hull cross section there is an amazing
amount of room in them compared to a conventional western sail boat.
They are also slower :-) The living space on a real junk is almost
always in the stern, amidships is hold and forward is not much more
then a cubby.

A friend designed the interior of his boat using a sliding scale based
on how much time he spent in a spot to calculate the size.

He reckoned that he spent very little time in the Head so it was just
big enough to back in and squat. He only slept in the sleeping
compartment so it was only slightly larger then the bunk. His wife
really liked to cook so there was a fairly large galley and finally
they reckoned that they spent most of their time in the salon so it
had the most room.

I was aboard his boat any number of times and it did seem pretty
spacious for a 38 ft. boat.

Food storage. If you plan to live aboard you probably want a fridge.
There are two basic systems Electric (12 VDC) driven and engine
driven. You can have a eutectic system with either type of power but
a conventional refrigerator will be electric. My air cooled condenser
12 VDC fridge draws about 5 amps when the compressor runs and it runs
about half eh time - say 60 AH/day. More modern ones use appreciably
less electricity. An engine driven one will require running the engine
at least once a day and sometimes more often but if you are anchored
out you will probably run your engine regularly to keep the batteries
up anyway. Or have a bunch of solar panels.

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.


You're not going into coffee shipping, are you???

Leanne

On Feb 25, 4:56 am, Bruce in Bangkok decypher-
wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:50:29 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll



wrote:
Ive got the wood milling for a sampan that i scaled up to thirty feet.
going to build it as a study for a 50'X16' or so foot junk.
traditional building methods and all that. but i need some info from
cruisers
about layout as i draft the plans.
Ive spent most of my life on work boats and have no real clue as to
what a comfortable house layout would be. yes i know there is a
building group but most of the folks there are not cruising over long
distances.

so here is the list of stuff i am working on.
Ive got a relatively large amount of space to play with, excluding a
center hold of about 15 by 15.
I figure a small forepeak trunk for visitors and a gen set. engine,
batteries etc. under benches and behind ladders

1. food storage.
2.galley lay out.
3. salon layout.
4.head
5. state room lay out.

what accommodation plans for which boats do you find easy to use,
comfortable, logical and easy to maintain.

You are using two terms that are totally different. Sampans and Junks
are totally different.. Different hull form and different construction
entirely. From your description I suspect that you are talking about a
junk as a sampan is pretty much a flat bottomed rowing skiff.

As a Junk has a nearly square hull cross section there is an amazing
amount of room in them compared to a conventional western sail boat.
They are also slower :-) The living space on a real junk is almost
always in the stern, amidships is hold and forward is not much more
then a cubby.

A friend designed the interior of his boat using a sliding scale based
on how much time he spent in a spot to calculate the size.

He reckoned that he spent very little time in the Head so it was just
big enough to back in and squat. He only slept in the sleeping
compartment so it was only slightly larger then the bunk. His wife
really liked to cook so there was a fairly large galley and finally
they reckoned that they spent most of their time in the salon so it
had the most room.

I was aboard his boat any number of times and it did seem pretty
spacious for a 38 ft. boat.

Food storage. If you plan to live aboard you probably want a fridge.
There are two basic systems Electric (12 VDC) driven and engine
driven. You can have a eutectic system with either type of power but
a conventional refrigerator will be electric. My air cooled condenser
12 VDC fridge draws about 5 amps when the compressor runs and it runs
about half eh time - say 60 AH/day. More modern ones use appreciably
less electricity. An engine driven one will require running the engine
at least once a day and sometimes more often but if you are anchored
out you will probably run your engine regularly to keep the batteries
up anyway. Or have a bunch of solar panels.

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Actually i am talking about two different boats here and i am very
well aware of the differences between the hull forms.
the sampan is to use the traditional building methods before i build a
fifty foot junk. planks with floors and bulkheads are not like the
western skeleton with planks, the whole mind set and assumption base
is different.
however both sampans and junks are built with the same methods.
building with the traditional methods is what i do.

yep i like house aft boats. part of the below decks area froward is
for machinery. gen set, water maker, the noisy stuff.
with a small accommodation for guests or kids.partially trunked.

LOL everyone i show the plans to tells me that junks are slow and
don't go to the wind as well as western boats. I don't want a race
boat i want a cruising boat. more important to me is the comfort and
distance capability, might take me longer to arrive but i can have a
nice ride. I figure the junk will be my last boat and its gotta travel
well for long transits.

that sliding scale sounds like a good idea

got the electrical covered it will be 12 volt solar/wind with a
generator backup. I am going to put electric moters in this so i will
have two battery banks. one for house and bridge power and one for
propulsion with a crossover just in case.

Ahh the cargo hold. it will be able to be pumped full of water when
the boat is running lite with no cargo or fishing; and dry when i need
to transport bulk cargo. it will be able to take 22 full pallets of
goods with room for dunnage or be hand stacked to get more cargo in.
in my mind a boat must be able to pay her own way and normally this
means hauling goods be they fish or dry to other places. since i
figure we will be running up north i can make a bit of cash on bulk
cargo for friends in the more remote villages ( i have already
researched this option and spoken to many folks about this plan and
most have agreed that if i offered this service i would have as much
if not more work than i can handle). 22 pallets of box milk is a very
valuable cargo in the chain since liquids cost dearly to fly. sides
cargo holds make great playpens.

Good questions but the answers depend -

Is the boat going to be sailed at sea in potentially rough conditions?

oh yes i figure the coast of Alaska, out in the chain as far as attu
the remote islands in the arctic, the south pacific, down the west
coast of south America, the African continent, selected parts of Asia,
and the a few trips to the med.

If so, how many days of sea stores? Fuel and water requirements?

I am figuring 60 days of water (about 700 gal with a reserve, i have
not decided yet weather to cut this down due to water maker ) and
stores the longest transit would be the coconut milk run of almost
3000 miles.
fuel for 100 hours at working loads so call it 200 gal (hydro for
cargo gear, generator (augmented with solar and wind), water maker
and cook stove)

Are we talking about a 50 footer with full keel?
yes

What about the center hold - fish, dry cargo ?
both. depending on need.

Walk through or not?
not walk through.

How many crew?
max crew of four adults, mostly will run with two crew I expect kids
will be involved in here someplace.

Deck layout - pilot house, center cockpit, aft cockpit?

aft Pilot house slaved aux station forward of house at deck level,
center water tight hold, small coffin forepeak.

On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "Leanne" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.

You're not going into coffee shipping, are you???

Leanne

naa that cargo is not worth transporting by boat its cheaper to fly.
the things i am thinking of hauling are durable and costly to fly. I
might make less money but i wont have to deal with the authorities
trying to shoot me out of the water.

all in all a good trade.

On Feb 25, 1:01*pm, Two meter troll wrote:
On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "Leanne" wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message

.. .

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.

You're not going into coffee shipping, are you???

Leanne

naa that cargo is not worth transporting by boat its cheaper to fly.
the things i am thinking of hauling are durable and costly to fly. I
might make less money but i wont have to deal with the authorities
trying to shoot me out of the water.

all in all a good trade.

Are you going to be hauling cargo for hire? Or just trading stuff on
the sly?
Have you ever taken a cargo boat with stuff in i'ts hold into another
country?

Coffee is a very durable cargo green. You can carry alot in a very
small space.
20'x8'x8'6" can carry around 50,000 lbs or 40'x8'x8'6" can carry 100
thousand.

Good luck on the Junk, I would love to have one, but feel they are
more suited for near coastal and harbor work.
I'd consider Kawlon Harbor and buying vs building new...go with a ming
dynasty design.

If you build, will it be steel?
Do you have a boat now?

I saw you mentioned Work boats, what type of work?

Joe

On Feb 25, 1:38*pm, Joe wrote:
On Feb 25, 1:01*pm, Two meter troll wrote:





On Feb 25, 9:49 am, "Leanne" wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message

.. .

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:56:15 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you doing with the cargo hold?

Heh, good question.

You're not going into coffee shipping, are you???

Leanne

naa that cargo is not worth transporting by boat its cheaper to fly.
the things i am thinking of hauling are durable and costly to fly. I
might make less money but i wont have to deal with the authorities
trying to shoot me out of the water.

all in all a good trade.

*Are you going to be hauling cargo for hire? Or just trading stuff on
the sly?
Have you ever taken a cargo boat with stuff in i'ts hold into another
country?

Coffee is a very durable cargo green. You can carry alot in a very
small space.
20'x8'x8'6" can carry around 50,000 lbs or 40'x8'x8'6" can carry 100
thousand.

*Good luck on the Junk, I would love to have one, but feel they are
more suited for near coastal and harbor work.
I'd consider Kawlon Harbor and buying vs building new...go with a ming
dynasty design.

If you build, will it be steel?
Do you have a boat now?

*I saw you mentioned Work boats, what type of work?

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Forgot to mention, Junks are slow, not that slow is bad all the time,
just fast is better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC2AG...e=channel_page

Joe