Capt. Rob wrote:
....
But when I get back I NEED to explain to everyone why an aft cabin like
ours is a MUST HAVE feature!
:')


Yes, please explain why an aft cabin without proper ventilation is a
"must have" feature.

I got back a few days ago from spending 5 nights on moorings in the
middle of the worst heat wave we've had here in years. We were never
too hot at night, and usually slept under a blanket. During the day
to escape the heat I often went down to the bunk where it was cool.

Your cabin has such poor ventilation that you considered putting a gas
genset in just so you could have A/C on the one or two nights you
might spend on a mooring. If that isn't powerboat thinking, I don't
know what is!

I got back a few days ago from spending 5 nights on moorings in the
middle of the worst heat wave we've had here in years. We were never
too hot at night, and usually slept under a blanket.


Jeff, during our heatwave here we had several nights just below 100
degrees. On the water was no better. Puh-lease cut the crap. If you're
comfortable at 95 or even 85 degrees, fine. I'm not. In fact I always
like it closer to 70 degrees or even a bit colder. My wife likes it
hotter, but Thomas seems to be more like me. We would have fried on any
boat in those temps without ac. we have 2 opening ports and a door to
open, so we can make a breeze no problem...accept that it's a hot
breeze.
We certainly would never take Thomas out in 104 degree weather or make
him sweat in a 95 degree cabin. All the vents in the word can't change
that, pal.



RB
35s5
NY

Bob, if you had ever done any real cruising outside of your tiny
corner of LIS, you would know how stupid you sound.

First of all, even Laguardia did not register any nights "just below
100," there was one where the low was 86, and a few others at 80 to
83. However, that is the temperature on land. A major reason to
anchor out (or take a mooring) is to get away from the heat of the
land. In LIS, the surface water temp is about 75 degrees. Any boat
with good ventilation will get chilled down to that if there is any
wind. The night of the worst heat was quite windy, over 10 all night
long with gusts up to about 20 knots. On my boat, it would have been
chilly! For the 5 nights we were out there was maybe 2 hours where I
slept over the blankets because the wind went flat, other than that we
were under the covers. Even in light air, a wind scoop will usually
gather enough air to be effective, but I only bother to rig that if
the water temp is over 80. In fact, the last night the water temp
(in Boston Harbor) had dipped to about 70 and I had to scavenge for a
second blanket.

I won't argue that A/C is handy if you're forced to tie up at the
marina every night. In that case the air that's coming in is likely
coming from heated land and buildings. But anyone who cruises
appreciates that with good ventilation, A/C is not needed if you
anchor out.

And being able to open you door so you get some of the air that comes
though the forward hatch does not count as "good ventilation."


Capt. Rob wrote:
I got back a few days ago from spending 5 nights on moorings in the
middle of the worst heat wave we've had here in years. We were never
too hot at night, and usually slept under a blanket.


Jeff, during our heatwave here we had several nights just below 100
degrees. On the water was no better. Puh-lease cut the crap. If you're
comfortable at 95 or even 85 degrees, fine. I'm not. In fact I always
like it closer to 70 degrees or even a bit colder. My wife likes it
hotter, but Thomas seems to be more like me. We would have fried on any
boat in those temps without ac. we have 2 opening ports and a door to
open, so we can make a breeze no problem...accept that it's a hot
breeze.
We certainly would never take Thomas out in 104 degree weather or make
him sweat in a 95 degree cabin. All the vents in the word can't change
that, pal.



RB
35s5
NY

Jeff wrote:
Bob, if you had ever done any real cruising outside of your tiny
corner of LIS, you would know how stupid you sound.

First of all, even Laguardia did not register any nights "just below
100," there was one where the low was 86, and a few others at 80 to
83. However, that is the temperature on land. A major reason to
anchor out (or take a mooring) is to get away from the heat of the
land. In LIS, the surface water temp is about 75 degrees.

Burr, if you have 75- water you should have a cool breeze for sure. I
did see on the news that NYC creates it's own weather with all the
cement and asphalt, holding night time temps 15-20 degrees hotter than
it should be. Here if you get out on the bay as the sun sets you feel
the waves of hot land air and cool gulf air mixing. Like a blast of a
hair dryer followed by the feeling like someone opened a huge fridge
door. Hot cold hot cold...Make's for great mirages.

Joe

If that isn't powerboat thinking, I don't
know what is!



Powerboat thinking is not about air conditiioning, Jeff. It's about
powerboating. It's about selling your sailboat and buying a powerboat.
There's only one person here who's done that.



RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
If that isn't powerboat thinking, I don't
know what is!

Powerboat thinking is not about air conditiioning, Jeff. It's about
powerboating. It's about selling your sailboat and buying a powerboat.

Powerboat thinking is putting in an aft cabin with poor ventilation
and then claiming its a feature because it requires you to add a
genset to run the A/C at night on a mooring.

At my marina most of the powerboats over 25 feet have A/C, but I don't
think any of the sailboats do (certainly none run on daily basis).

You may daysail, but you have a powerboat mentality.

Powerboat thinking is putting in an aft cabin with poor ventilation
and then claiming its a feature because it requires you to add a
genset to run the A/C at night on a mooring.


Well, then every sailboat I've ever been on needs air conditioning.
I've never gone into a sailboat cabin on a 90+ degree day and found it
"cool." Sorry, you either like the heat or are full of crap.

At my marina most of the powerboats over 25 feet have A/C, but I
don't
think any of the sailboats do (certainly none run on daily basis).


Maybe people your way have no money! About half the sailboats here have
A/C and everyone who doesn't have it wishes they did. I guess you never
do anything below on really hot days!
Or maybe you're suggesting your cabin is a healthy 75 degrees on a 95
degree day???

Jeff, you not only sound like an idiot...you are one. Can you explain
the advantage of not having AC on board??? Is it too heavy??? Too
complicated for you? Too expensive??? To nice to be comfortable on
really hot days when fixing that head of yours? You're courting a heat
stroke, dude.



RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:


Jeff, you not only sound like an idiot...you are one. Can you explain
the advantage of not having AC on board??? Is it too heavy??? Too
complicated for you? Too expensive??? To nice to be comfortable on
really hot days when fixing that head of yours? You're courting a heat
stroke, dude.


Let me explain for you bubbles. Your boat is to small. You need all the
space you have.

AC's take lots of maintainance, need major power, and are heavy. My
friends now sailing down the coast of S. America tossed both AC's off
the P 40 before taking off. They needed the space, did not want the
hassles, and they knew they would be on the hook never pluging in. They
put lots of fans aboard that are 12 volt, have a wind scoop and needed
to loose weight ...which having no AC's helps to accomplish. If you had
proper tropical canvas to shade your boat that would help you on hot
days. What they did for comfort was install a solar panel and wind gen
to run the fans inside 24/7 if needed. Thats what I suggest you do.

Now we have not had a day that the "feels like temp" has not been
under 107 for a month or two now. We have shade canvas and lot's of
AC's but we have the room and the power to run them.


Joe


RB
35s5
NY

Let me explain for you bubbles. Your boat is to small. You need all the

space you have.

For what? Short range cruises and overnighters? Most of our storage is
empty. The area where the AC is is also empty. Our lazerette is mostly
empty. Aft lockers empty. Forward storage not in use. Scotty's skull
also empty.
Care to explain why we don't have room on a 35s5 that's not cruising
long range?


AC's take lots of maintainance, need major power, and are heavy. My

friends now sailing down the coast of S. America tossed both AC's off
the P 40 before taking off.


??? My entire 17'000 BTU system weight is 75 lbs and is mounted under
the sink! If it needs service I'll get it serviced by my yard like
anything else. So??? It's harldy complicated, though I don't doubt your
system may be.
I understand your POV, and even Jeff's, but we're sailing locally,
hanging out at the dock for BBQ with friends and daysailing. The setup
is really nice so far. You can't argue with cool...and in Scotty's case
you can't argue with a fool!


RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
Powerboat thinking is putting in an aft cabin with poor ventilation
and then claiming its a feature because it requires you to add a
genset to run the A/C at night on a mooring.


Well, then every sailboat I've ever been on needs air conditioning.
I've never gone into a sailboat cabin on a 90+ degree day and found it
"cool." Sorry, you either like the heat or are full of crap.

Then you haven't been on many sailboats. And we know that you've only
spent a few nights on the hook on a few boats. We are talking about
night temps on a mooring, not daytime. After all, the point of going
out on a boat is to be outdoors, not huddled down below with the
genset and A/C running! I anchor in places where we can go for a
swim, or kayak if it gets too hot in the cockpit. Why would you go
somewhere where you have to stay down below?

And really, even in the midday heat, my forward cabins are cooler than
the cockpit.

And before you bring up your kid as an excuse, remember that we
cruised with our daughter from the time she was 10 months old. For
dockside relief we moved to a marina with a small swimming pool, but
we never had an overheating issue underway or on a mooring. Which
brings up a question, why don't you have a dodger to protect your kid
from the Sun? Is it because the cockpit is too small?



At my marina most of the powerboats over 25 feet have A/C, but I
don't
think any of the sailboats do (certainly none run on daily basis).


Maybe people your way have no money! About half the sailboats here have
A/C and everyone who doesn't have it wishes they did. I guess you never
do anything below on really hot days!

That may be because you have a lot of marina queens. The question is,
how many of them run the genset all night when they anchor?

Or maybe you're suggesting your cabin is a healthy 75 degrees on a 95
degree day???

As I've said, in the midday sun the cabin and cockpit can heat up. My
boat, however, has six large, forward facing hatches, plus four large
side hatches (too big to be called "portholes") plus two more large
aft facing hatches, and four small portholes. Plus the bows tend to
funnel up the surface air over the deck. The result is, if the wind
is 5 knots or more, the cabin temp is pretty close to surface water
temp. The bunks are definitely chilled down, but the main cabin stays
a few degrees warmer.

To help this, we've added tight mesh (Phifertex) over the large plexi
windows, and "surface skyscreens" on the hatches. This makes a huge
difference in how much the cabin heats up.
http://uk.oceanair.co.uk/da/10495


Jeff, you not only sound like an idiot...you are one.

No Bob, you're the idiot claiming that it would be horrific to anchor
out without A/C. Only a powerboater with no ventilation would make
that claim.

Can you explain
the advantage of not having AC on board??? Is it too heavy???

A bit, but I don't worry too much about that. However, A/C plus a
genset does start to add up on a catamaran.

Too complicated for you?

I'm a licensed A/C technician. Gauge set, tanks of refrigerant,
tools, etc. Its the family business.

Too expensive???

Actually, yes. As a retiree on a fixed income I've started looking at
money differently. The cost, perhaps $5K or more to do my boat
properly, means $300 a year, for the rest of my life! Add the $420 my
marina charges for the electricity, and this becomes a substantial hit
given that we spend very limited time at the dock. If we lived on the
boat I might look at this differently!

But we're really talking about running it at a mooring so we have to
add maybe $5K to $10K for a genset plus some annual expense. This is
way too much money and hassle for something that isn't needed, and
isn't desirable.

To nice to be comfortable on
really hot days when fixing that head of yours? You're courting a heat
stroke, dude.

To be honest, on days like that (perhaps 1 or 2 a year) I only do
about an hour's work before taking a long break. Would I pay several
hundred dollars so I could work longer? Very doubtful indeed!

The discussion is not about A/C at the dock for marina queens, its
about on a mooring, where cruisers like me spend most of our time.
When there's boat work to be done during vacation, I'm the one who
stays cool on the boat, while women-folk are sweltering ashore.
(Actually hopping from one air conditioned shop to another!)

You're claiming you need to add a genset to be comfortable on your
boat. Obviously, your boat has terrible ventilation because almost
every boat I've cruised on is quite comfortable if the water is 75
degrees.

And, you might check out the water temps in other places. It pretty
warm now down in FL, but in Winter in the Keys its around 68 degrees.
Why don't you ask Neal if he needs A/C on his boat?